J Adern, How will she affect the election, and is she a good leader?

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#1865081 14-Sep-2017 10:40

6FIEND:

networkn:

How will they fund the miracles they plan on performing to solve the serious issues they see in NZ now?

Is it too soon to enquire about a fiscal hole again? Labour's own forecasts are building in $17bn of additional tax revenue - Joyce may have understated things ;-)

Might let the market sort it out :-)

Is the secret, non disclosed tax reform the source of all the funds needed for all their policies? Wasnt aware of that. Nats have had a new policy every 17 minutes, they arent costed as they are reactionary, same thing.

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#1865083 14-Sep-2017 10:45

Wiggum:

tdgeek:

This is Apple Android stuff, it should be serious

I agree it should be, But its irresponsible of Jacinda to propose running a country, without giving people any economic certainty.

Agree. So she has back tracked that, so whatever tax reform they will do, its up for a vote, problem solved. her misjudgement. Or she could be stubborn

You cant say Any Economic Certainty, thats playing with words. Uncertainty over a tax reform that does not include the forms of tax that are the vast contributor of tax revenue, all of the other policies are there, not hidden.

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#1865085 14-Sep-2017 10:45

netwokn

Get your facts right wasn't me Is this how National party supporter react. Accuse people of things that are not true Look at their latest attack on taxes with their new videos. All BS Deal with issues make sure of your facts Read some of the articles in new releases about how there is very little difference between the two parties and the amount they intend to spend on their policies

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#1865090 14-Sep-2017 10:49

tdgeek:

networkn:

allio:

Well my call of half an hour ago was exactly wrong - Labour have now categorically ruled out any (not already announced) new taxes in the first term.

Wow, way to stick to your "beliefs" Labour.

So they believe these taxation policies are critical to NZ, but since they won't get elected with them in place, they have compromised their values to take power. How will they fund the miracles they plan on performing to solve the serious issues they see in NZ now?

Its not a wow. Some of the lies that National have been using is a wow. Its obvious that Labour asked for too much trust in a new Govt with new leadership, so they compromised. Compromise is not a bad thing. What miracles? More sensationalism. This is Apple Android stuff, it should be serious

JA was adamant she didn't want to be PM, now not so much, Labour is adamant on taxes, now not so much. Labour states categorically they can solve the housing crisis, but many experts disagree their approach will help in the medium or long term, could make things worse. There are other issues with the budgets they have proposed, lack of payrises for lots of sectors. There is huge doubt as to whether Labour can produce a $0 budget even from very strong left leaning financial commentators.

If National gets re-elected, then JA will have the opportunity to prove her leadership over a greater period of time, setup tax groups and solidify their plan. She has potential and can put pressure on National in opposition. Labour has done a very poor job of keeping National "honest" over the past 9 years, but I suspect that will change if JA stays as leader, though I do have some doubts she can retain it.

I agree compromise is a good thing, but they should have thought things out better in the first place. JA came out like a bull in a china shop. I believe it's an inexperience and age thing. I am a very similar age to JA and I don't believe I know anyone in my age group I'd feel comfortable leading the Government. There isn't a lot of downside to Labour under JA being in opposition for 3 years longer.

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#1865091 14-Sep-2017 10:50

tdgeek:

6FIEND:

networkn:

How will they fund the miracles they plan on performing to solve the serious issues they see in NZ now?

Is it too soon to enquire about a fiscal hole again?...

Might let the market sort it out :-)

Is the secret, non disclosed tax reform the source of all the funds needed for all their policies?...

No - Labour have already detailed the other sources of funds.

...if you round that up to 2.5bn per year, then that leaves a $14.5bn per year shortfall.

You suggested that this should be treated seriously - It's probably worth doing precisely that.

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#1865095 14-Sep-2017 10:52

gulfa:

netwokn

Get your facts right wasn't me Is this how National party supporter react. Accuse people of things that are not true Look at their latest attack on taxes with their new videos. All BS Deal with issues make sure of your facts Read some of the articles in new releases about how there is very little difference between the two parties and the amount they intend to spend on their policies

Sorry @gulfa, it was actually @allio that said it!

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#1865099 14-Sep-2017 10:53

networkn:

tdgeek:

networkn:

allio:

Well my call of half an hour ago was exactly wrong - Labour have now categorically ruled out any (not already announced) new taxes in the first term.

Wow, way to stick to your "beliefs" Labour.

So they believe these taxation policies are critical to NZ, but since they won't get elected with them in place, they have compromised their values to take power. How will they fund the miracles they plan on performing to solve the serious issues they see in NZ now?

Its not a wow. Some of the lies that National have been using is a wow. Its obvious that Labour asked for too much trust in a new Govt with new leadership, so they compromised. Compromise is not a bad thing. What miracles? More sensationalism. This is Apple Android stuff, it should be serious

JA was adamant she didn't want to be PM, now not so much, Labour is adamant on taxes, now not so much. Labour states categorically they can solve the housing crisis, but many experts disagree their approach will help in the medium or long term, could make things worse. There are other issues with the budgets they have proposed, lack of payrises for lots of sectors. There is huge doubt as to whether Labour can produce a $0 budget even from very strong left leaning financial commentators.

If National gets re-elected, then JA will have the opportunity to prove her leadership over a greater period of time, setup tax groups and solidify their plan. She has potential and can put pressure on National in opposition. Labour has done a very poor job of keeping National "honest" over the past 9 years, but I suspect that will change if JA stays as leader, though I do have some doubts she can retain it.

I agree compromise is a good thing, but they should have thought things out better in the first place. JA came out like a bull in a china shop. I believe it's an inexperience and age thing. I am a very similar age to JA and I don't believe I know anyone in my age group I'd feel comfortable leading the Government. There isn't a lot of downside to Labour under JA being in opposition for 3 years longer.

Last night the Project did a poll on housing the results were quite surprising 75 % support for Labours Housing Policy 25% for National It was quite a large poll in the thousands I think . It will be interesting to see how tonights Colmar Brunton poll goes

allio

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#1865100 14-Sep-2017 10:54

networkn:

Yet Labour wants a house for everyone, and one of the other Labour supporters in this thread (Sorry it might have been @gulfa but I can't find it) believes it's the only reason to live.

How can you support a party that fundamentally wants to contribute to the issue you believe is causing so many issues in NZ.

To save you from going back to check, I think you're talking about me - but you've misquoted me rather hilariously as declaring that home ownership is "the only reason to live" rather than something our government should strive for. I could come up with quite a lot of better reasons to live, thank you.

Anyway your argument makes no sense. The problem is people buying houses for reasons other than to live in them. Every house bought by an investor is a house that an owner-occupier can't buy. Change the tax system so it's not so profitable to buy additional houses, and people will invest in productive enterprises instead. Lower aggregate demand equals lower house prices and more home ownership. More money invested in our local businesses equals more productive and profitable country. Seriously - what's not to like?

Before you keep arguing with me - have you or anybody in your family tried to buy a first home in Auckland in the last 6 or so years?

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#1865101 14-Sep-2017 10:54

tdgeek:

Wiggum:

tdgeek:

This is Apple Android stuff, it should be serious

I agree it should be, But its irresponsible of Jacinda to propose running a country, without giving people any economic certainty.

Agree. So she has back tracked that, so whatever tax reform they will do, its up for a vote, problem solved. her misjudgement. Or she could be stubborn

You cant say Any Economic Certainty, thats playing with words. Uncertainty over a tax reform that does not include the forms of tax that are the vast contributor of tax revenue, all of the other policies are there, not hidden.

You are awfully forgiving of major mistakes and errors of judgment. It's hard not to feel like you are simply playing devils advocate.

tdgeek

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#1865104 14-Sep-2017 11:00

networkn:

tdgeek:

networkn:

allio:

Well my call of half an hour ago was exactly wrong - Labour have now categorically ruled out any (not already announced) new taxes in the first term.

Wow, way to stick to your "beliefs" Labour.

So they believe these taxation policies are critical to NZ, but since they won't get elected with them in place, they have compromised their values to take power. How will they fund the miracles they plan on performing to solve the serious issues they see in NZ now?

Its not a wow. Some of the lies that National have been using is a wow. Its obvious that Labour asked for too much trust in a new Govt with new leadership, so they compromised. Compromise is not a bad thing. What miracles? More sensationalism. This is Apple Android stuff, it should be serious

JA was adamant she didn't want to be PM, now not so much, Labour is adamant on taxes, now not so much. Labour states categorically they can solve the housing crisis, but many experts disagree their approach will help in the medium or long term, could make things worse. There are other issues with the budgets they have proposed, lack of payrises for lots of sectors. There is huge doubt as to whether Labour can produce a $0 budget even from very strong left leaning financial commentators.

If National gets re-elected, then JA will have the opportunity to prove her leadership over a greater period of time, setup tax groups and solidify their plan. She has potential and can put pressure on National in opposition. Labour has done a very poor job of keeping National "honest" over the past 9 years, but I suspect that will change if JA stays as leader, though I do have some doubts she can retain it.

I agree compromise is a good thing, but they should have thought things out better in the first place. JA came out like a bull in a china shop. I believe it's an inexperience and age thing. I am a very similar age to JA and I don't believe I know anyone in my age group I'd feel comfortable leading the Government. There isn't a lot of downside to Labour under JA being in opposition for 3 years longer.

Too much exageration. I accept the bias but even so. They have policies that feel with help. And there is no housing crisis I'm told anyway

Campaign hasnt been done properly and the wolves went in fair enough.

Anyways, the capability is not that wide, the policies are not that wide, spending abnd debt are not that wode, but she got done by trust vs experience, so thats fine. I was keen to see her give it a crack, now keen to see Bill keep to his new and many policies

gulfa

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#1865106 14-Sep-2017 11:00

networkn:

gulfa:

netwokn

Get your facts right wasn't me Is this how National party supporter react. Accuse people of things that are not true Look at their latest attack on taxes with their new videos. All BS Deal with issues make sure of your facts Read some of the articles in new releases about how there is very little difference between the two parties and the amount they intend to spend on their policies

Sorry @gulfa, it was actually @allio that said it!

Thank you

Last night the Project had a poll on Housing both Ministers put their cases Labour had 75% support National 25% It was voluntary and several thousands voted ( I think) It will be interesting to see how the Colmar Brunton poll goes tonight.

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#1865107 14-Sep-2017 11:01

The Project is so clearly biased, just from some of the off cuff comments from crew. Quite disgusting imo. The Labour housing guy is really creepy and says nothing of value. I do agree the Nats have screwed up over housing and have also screwed up on taking care of the vulnerable.

Todays U turn from Labour on tax is yet another desperate attempt to get power at any cost. To go into an election like Labour has is extremely bad management. If Little was still Leader, Labour would be about 20% on the polls. Jacinda has no real experience at anything. She has never been leader and isnt politics her only job ever?

Now they release a tax plan, and without increasing tax their is no way in hell they can afford their election promises. Its desparation!!!

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#1865111 14-Sep-2017 11:02

allio:

networkn:

Yet Labour wants a house for everyone, and one of the other Labour supporters in this thread (Sorry it might have been @gulfa but I can't find it) believes it's the only reason to live.

How can you support a party that fundamentally wants to contribute to the issue you believe is causing so many issues in NZ.

To save you from going back to check, I think you're talking about me - but you've misquoted me rather hilariously as declaring that home ownership is "the only reason to live" rather than something our government should strive for. I could come up with quite a lot of better reasons to live, thank you.

Anyway your argument makes no sense. The problem is people buying houses for reasons other than to live in them. Every house bought by an investor is a house that an owner-occupier can't buy. Change the tax system so it's not so profitable to buy additional houses, and people will invest in productive enterprises instead. Lower aggregate demand equals lower house prices and more home ownership. More money invested in our local businesses equals more productive and profitable country. Seriously - what's not to like?

Before you keep arguing with me - have you or anybody in your family tried to buy a first home in Auckland in the last 6 or so years?

Yes, I did find the quote eventually and I apologised for my error. I did say I "thought" it was, rather than stated.

Regardless of what country you live in, there are always people renting. so discounting rental properties as a valid reason to own a property is fundamentally flawed.

I know a number of people who have purchased a home in Auckland in the past 6 years. It took hard work, commitment and sacrifice. I bought my first home 14 years ago, and without detailing what we did to make that a reality, rest assured, we sacrificed plenty including working over 100 hours a week, being apart for months and months at a time, and having a pretty low key wedding and honeymoon. We bought a home less than what we wanted in an area considered by many at the time to be undesirable.

gulfa

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#1865113 14-Sep-2017 11:05

Once again when will we all grow up and stop name calling (creepy) people Deal with issue Interesting to note that one of the commentators MR has come out and publically stated his position and it wasn't for Labour.

Wiggum

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#1865114 14-Sep-2017 11:05

tdgeek:

Wiggum:

tdgeek:

This is Apple Android stuff, it should be serious

I agree it should be, But its irresponsible of Jacinda to propose running a country, without giving people any economic certainty.

Agree. So she has back tracked that, so whatever tax reform they will do, its up for a vote, problem solved. her misjudgement. Or she could be stubborn

You cant say Any Economic Certainty, thats playing with words. Uncertainty over a tax reform that does not include the forms of tax that are the vast contributor of tax revenue, all of the other policies are there, not hidden.

Except that voting started 4 days ago. Sorry for those labour voters who may have already voted and dont like this tax policy. Well done jacinda (releasing policies after voting starts? Thats a first!)

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