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1643 posts

Uber Geek


  #1861714 10-Sep-2017 10:21
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tdgeek:

 

I dont recall saying removing the tax cuts is not an increase. Why did National offer tac cuts to coincide with an election? Are we that rich that is share cash, not needed for anything? Should that have been offered at all?

 

Yes, Labours differs. You can argue both ways whether that is a good or bad idea. All of their policies differ to National, and vice versa. The implication is that Labour wants to tax tax and tax. What about Nationals number of tax increases? No one wants to discuss that. Tax in the Govts source of income, it doesnt matter who is in power, if they need it, they tax it. All of these National and Labour taxes arent levelled at everyone, Income Tax does that. If you feel that many taxes should be removed, thats a fair comment. You then need to justify when the books are in deficit, and we borrow, and we have an ever increasing interest charge. 

 

 

I'm not rich. I am struggling to pay rent and save a deposit for a house. Those tax cuts would have been gotten me an extra $1k closer to that goal. 

 

No one is talking about the 'new' taxes National added because they aren't the ones being deliberately vague or deliberately misleading about whether they do or don't have a tax agenda in this election we're in now. What you're doing is the playground equivalent of "he started it".

 

Furthermore, it's not me who needs to justify the current level of taxation - the party wanting to be elected that is being deliberately coy on tax policy which clearly exists because they know it will likely be rejected by the electorate for the third time in a row is the one that has to justify why they're needed, how they're going to work, etc. 

 

BTW National is paying down crown debt and Labour freely admit they won't repay debt as quickly as the Nats will. I know all you're getting from Labour is slogans but detail tends to be quite important when you're taking money out of peoples' pockets. 


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  #1861719 10-Sep-2017 10:34
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GV27:

tdgeek:


I dont recall saying removing the tax cuts is not an increase. Why did National offer tac cuts to coincide with an election? Are we that rich that is share cash, not needed for anything? Should that have been offered at all?


Yes, Labours differs. You can argue both ways whether that is a good or bad idea. All of their policies differ to National, and vice versa. The implication is that Labour wants to tax tax and tax. What about Nationals number of tax increases? No one wants to discuss that. Tax in the Govts source of income, it doesnt matter who is in power, if they need it, they tax it. All of these National and Labour taxes arent levelled at everyone, Income Tax does that. If you feel that many taxes should be removed, thats a fair comment. You then need to justify when the books are in deficit, and we borrow, and we have an ever increasing interest charge. 



I'm not rich. I am struggling to pay rent and save a deposit for a house. Those tax cuts would have been gotten me an extra $1k closer to that goal. 


No one is talking about the 'new' taxes National added because they aren't the ones being deliberately vague or deliberately misleading about whether they do or don't have a tax agenda in this election we're in now. What you're doing is the playground equivalent of "he started it".


Furthermore, it's not me who needs to justify the current level of taxation - the party wanting to be elected that is being deliberately coy on tax policy which clearly exists because they know it will likely be rejected by the electorate for the third time in a row is the one that has to justify why they're needed, how they're going to work, etc. 


BTW National is paying down crown debt and Labour freely admit they won't repay debt as quickly as the Nats will. I know all you're getting from Labour is slogans but detail tends to be quite important when you're taking money out of peoples' pockets. 



What was debt under the last Labour govt?

It's not he started it, it's the simple fact that tax is needed at times. But if it's needed for funding but we give it away then reduced funding, so issues get delayed. Here we are now needing to spend for delayed work.

 
 
 
 


Lock him up!
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  #1861721 10-Sep-2017 10:40
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GV27:

 

I'm not rich. I am struggling to pay rent and save a deposit for a house. Those tax cuts would have been gotten me an extra $1k closer to that goal. 

 

 

Looking at tax is looking at one issue in isolation. What about overall policy? Some might argue that the reason you are struggling to save for a home deposit is because of the current government's policy (or lack of) in other areas.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #1861725 10-Sep-2017 10:50
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New National policy to double first home buyers grants. Where was that 3 weeks ago? Seems they are now throwing money at everyone.

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Uber Geek


  #1861726 10-Sep-2017 10:53
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Rikkitic:

 

GV27:

 

I'm not rich. I am struggling to pay rent and save a deposit for a house. Those tax cuts would have been gotten me an extra $1k closer to that goal. 

 

 

Looking at tax is looking at one issue in isolation. What about overall policy? Some might argue that the reason you are struggling to save for a home deposit is because of the current government's policy (or lack of) in other areas.

 

 

Considering both parties have proven they only care about meaningful housing reform when they are in opposition, it seems prudent to not count on them doing anything about it.

 

Tax is central because it's how you pay for policy. It's how things are funded, and it determines who is paying for what. From there you can determine if other policies are fair, equitable or even possible. Having a political party deliberately be vague about how they plan on raising funds throws their entire policy platform into question. Like Jacinda likes to say, this election is about trust. I don't trust people who deliberately hide detail from people because they know it will be unpopular. 


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  #1861729 10-Sep-2017 11:07
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The number of National voters who have shifted to Labour, knowing they forego tax cut and not knowing what the Tax Working Group will suggest shows there is trust being given. Or that the status quo is not doing what they want done.

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Master Geek


  #1861732 10-Sep-2017 11:10
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tdgeek: New National policy to double first home buyers grants. Where was that 3 weeks ago? Seems they are now throwing money at everyone.

 

 

Pretty blatant vote grab if you ask me. Powerful though, even for middle income houses.

 

If you are first home buyer you would be (as a couple) what.... 12k better off by voting National?

 

 

Bit different than the 2k you could live without by going without the tax cut.

 

Might get some people voting with their wallet, I know I would seriously be considering it if I was in that position.

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  #1861759 10-Sep-2017 11:25
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tdgeek: The number of National voters who have shifted to Labour, knowing they forego tax cut and not knowing what the Tax Working Group will suggest shows there is trust being given. Or that the status quo is not doing what they want done.

 

They don't know what the tax working group will suggest. No one does but Labour. It would be great if there was some actual scrutiny about this, but articles about Jacinda's bodyguard are more important, apparently. 

 

 

 

I'd argue the fact that Labour are drip feeding details of their CGT suggest:

 

1) They know it is hurting them
2) They do have a firm policy that they are choosing to mislead voters about; and

 

3) The working group is a formality. 


898 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #1861791 10-Sep-2017 12:36
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I think labour know full well what additional taxes they are going to introduce will be. As above, they are using the "working group" to distance themselves from any detail, but I suspect the working group will simply be a rubber stamp of approval on what measures Labour already plan to put in place.

 

If they do get in and scrap the tax cuts, I'd be pissed, but then on the other side, if they then provide free tertiary education, then that'd work for us with 2 kids in high school, so theres pluses and minuses to any decision.

 

I don't see capital gains effecting us initially, although someone pointed out previously about property that is inherited. If a property is passed through to someone via a will, how is its value determined, its not like you are looking to profit from it, but realising the cash from the asset. Arguably it may have been its owners family property, therefore exempt from CGT, but now transferred to someone else, whos gain is it?

 

Too many unknowns




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  #1861959 10-Sep-2017 20:37
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tdgeek:

 

Why did National offer tac cuts to coincide with an election? Are we that rich that is share cash, not needed for anything? Should that have been offered at all?

 

They got us into Surplus and its fair to assume that there may be some money to throw around.

 

Surely throwing that money back to the taxpayers is a good option? Where do you suggest it go?

 

 




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  #1861961 10-Sep-2017 20:41
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tdgeek:
What was debt under the last Labour govt?

 

You cant use debt under the last government to make a fair comparison when there was the Christchurch earthquake to deal with.

 

 


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  #1861964 10-Sep-2017 20:46
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Wiggum:

 

tdgeek:

 

Why did National offer tac cuts to coincide with an election? Are we that rich that is share cash, not needed for anything? Should that have been offered at all?

 

They got us into Surplus and its fair to assume that there may be some money to throw around.

 

Surely throwing that money back to the taxpayers is a good option? Where do you suggest it go?

 

 

 

 

Here is a few....

 

Improving health services

 

Improving schools

 

Increasing benefit payments to ease poverty

 

Retiring debt

 

 





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 




1199 posts

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  #1861965 10-Sep-2017 20:46
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tdgeek: The number of National voters who have shifted to Labour, knowing they forego tax cut and not knowing what the Tax Working Group will suggest shows there is trust being given. Or that the status quo is not doing what they want done.

 

And lets not forget the Conservatives that will now most likely shift to National as well. (Thanks Colin Craig)

 

If I recall correctly they accounted for just under 4% in the last election. (More than Maori Party, Act, United Future, Internet MANA, and Legalise Cannabis Party combined)




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  #1861967 10-Sep-2017 20:50
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MikeB4:

 

Wiggum:

 

tdgeek:

 

Why did National offer tac cuts to coincide with an election? Are we that rich that is share cash, not needed for anything? Should that have been offered at all?

 

They got us into Surplus and its fair to assume that there may be some money to throw around.

 

Surely throwing that money back to the taxpayers is a good option? Where do you suggest it go?

 

 

 

 

Here is a few....

 

Improving health services

 

Improving schools

 

Increasing benefit payments to ease poverty

 

Retiring debt

 

 

 

 

But others have been complaining about Nationals tax increases over the years. I guess no matter how hard you try you can never please everyone.


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  #1862031 11-Sep-2017 06:40
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Wiggum:

 

tdgeek:
What was debt under the last Labour govt?

 

You cant use debt under the last government to make a fair comparison when there was the Christchurch earthquake to deal with.

 

 

 

 

Who paid for the EQ?

 

EQC Levies built up over many decades

 

Insurance companies. 


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