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581 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1845002 11-Aug-2017 10:06
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

And that is you? Tax cuts rock. I remember the days when Labour used tax cuts, to get on side with their demographic, the lower socio economic. National now offer tax cuts that we cannot afford (election year), while Labour wont. Ironic that.

 

 

Tax cuts are great. its more pocket money for me. 

 

Just because we clearly need to fix up some stuff (waterways etc), more taxing to get it done is not the answer.  Labour has some good policies which I 100% support, their problem is how they are proposing to pay for them. TAX TAX TAX. At what tax rate do we standup and say, hang on, thats enough. We already paying too much.

 

If a 100% Tax rate is theft and slavery, at what tax rate is it no longer theft and slavery?

 

Why should I support a party that wants to increase our taxes even more? I would be quiet happy to vote for those labour policies, and even a labour government. But the way I am looking at it is why should I when our household is going to be about $2118 worse off per year? And no, just because I do actually want some more money in my pocket, it does not mean that I am against funding welfare, and some green policies etc.. It just means that I think a really good government should be able to fix this stuff, without stealing even more from taxpayers.


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  Reply # 1845012 11-Aug-2017 10:15
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Wiggum:

 

 

 

Just because we clearly need to fix up some stuff (waterways etc), more taxing to get it done is not the answer.  Labour has some good policies which I 100% support, their problem is how they are proposing to pay for them. TAX TAX TAX. At what tax rate do we standup and say, hang on, thats enough. We already paying too much.

 

 

 

 

I'm guessing that other means to fix the problem, such as a "user pays" water-use levy with the funds collected to be used to remediate the disgusting state of many NZ waterways is also off the cards.  We clearly need magic.

 

What kind of magic do you propose?  The ostrich kind?  As increasingly used by the National party over the past 9 years - to make problems with housing / affordability, child poverty, and water pollution just "disappear".


 
 
 
 




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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1845019 11-Aug-2017 10:20
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Fred99:

 

Wiggum:

 

Just because we clearly need to fix up some stuff (waterways etc), more taxing to get it done is not the answer.  Labour has some good policies which I 100% support, their problem is how they are proposing to pay for them. TAX TAX TAX. At what tax rate do we standup and say, hang on, thats enough. We already paying too much.

 

 

I'm guessing that other means to fix the problem, such as a "user pays" water-use levy with the funds collected to be used to remediate the disgusting state of many NZ waterways is also off the cards.  We clearly need magic.

 

What kind of magic do you propose?  The ostrich kind?  As increasingly used by the National party over the past 9 years - to make problems with housing / affordability, child poverty, and water pollution just "disappear".

 

 

I'm saying, a good government will find a way of fixing it on what resources it already gets/can create. No need to tighten that tax noose some more.

 

There are plenty of problems that require lots of money to fix, pushing up tax every time we want to fix one of these problems is not the answer.

 

Its odd that in NZ we seem to be so acceptable to tax increases. Maybe we will learn our lesson when we get to 100%


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  Reply # 1845020 11-Aug-2017 10:24
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Wiggum:

 

Fred99:

 

Wiggum:

 

Just because we clearly need to fix up some stuff (waterways etc), more taxing to get it done is not the answer.  Labour has some good policies which I 100% support, their problem is how they are proposing to pay for them. TAX TAX TAX. At what tax rate do we standup and say, hang on, thats enough. We already paying too much.

 

 

I'm guessing that other means to fix the problem, such as a "user pays" water-use levy with the funds collected to be used to remediate the disgusting state of many NZ waterways is also off the cards.  We clearly need magic.

 

What kind of magic do you propose?  The ostrich kind?  As increasingly used by the National party over the past 9 years - to make problems with housing / affordability, child poverty, and water pollution just "disappear".

 

 

I'm saying, a good government will find a way of fixing it on what resources it already gets/can create. No need to tighten that tax noose some more.

 

There are plenty of problems that require lots of money to fix, pushing up tax every time we want to fix one of these problems is not the answer.

 

Its odd that in NZ we seem to be so acceptable to tax increases.

 

 

That's patently absurd.  There's been nothing but (income) tax decreases over the past 30 years.

 

Please also don't use "we" that way.  You're neither entitled to by Royalty - nor AFAIK spokesperson for anybody but yourself - and certainly not for "me".




581 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1845024 11-Aug-2017 10:35
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Fred99:

 

That's patently absurd.  There's been nothing but (income) tax decreases over the past 30 years.

 

Please also don't use "we" that way.  You're neither entitled to by Royalty - nor AFAIK spokesperson for anybody but yourself - and certainly not for "me".

 

 

I will have to go do some more research on that, I do know that our tax rates are pretty high, including fuel tax, tobacco/alcohol tax, GST. All of them have gone up. Income tax is not our only tax. We seem to be very acceptable to it, and when traveling overseas its very clear, at how we are ripped off by these taxes as it is. Apologies for using the words "we seem", I did not realize you were part of the grammar police!

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1845055 11-Aug-2017 11:17
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Wiggum:

 

Fred99:

 

That's patently absurd.  There's been nothing but (income) tax decreases over the past 30 years.

 

Please also don't use "we" that way.  You're neither entitled to by Royalty - nor AFAIK spokesperson for anybody but yourself - and certainly not for "me".

 

 

I will have to go do some more research on that, I do know that our tax rates are pretty high, including fuel tax, tobacco/alcohol tax, GST. All of them have gone up. Income tax is not our only tax. We seem to be very acceptable to it, and when traveling overseas its very clear, at how we are ripped off by these taxes as it is. Apologies for using the words "we seem", I did not realize you were part of the grammar police!

 

 

 

 

It's nothing to do with being grammatically correct.

 

What you've said above - if including yourself as you do in the example "We seem to be very acceptable to it" when it's very clear that you're not at all accepting it, defies logic.

 

For someone who now admits a need to go do some more research on something so basic, you've been extremely forward in presenting uninformed opinion as if it was fact.

 

IIRC the top marginal tax rate in NZ in 1984 was 66%.


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  Reply # 1845068 11-Aug-2017 11:39
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How high are NZ taxes? They need to fund the activities of the Govt and its policies and running the country. Unless the Govt is foolish or inefficient, and if there is no budget surplus every year, then the taxes must be reasonable

 

Compare to the US. We fund healthcare they don't. We could drop our hrealthcare budget abd reduce tax, then we will all need to spend $500 a month on medical insurance. For someone on $60k, that's a 10% "tax" we fund ourselves. Going by the many and visible poor and homeless there, I will assume their social welfare is much less than ours, so we can cut that right back, and reduce income tax.

 

Unless you compared countries with the same levels of tax funded services, you cannot compare Income tax rates

 

yes, there are other taxes and levies, they all fund something, generally direct, or into the Consolidated fund and indirectly support funding of said services. End of the day unless the Govt is stupid or we are always in a budgetary surplus, we cannot say that our taxes are too high.




581 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1845070 11-Aug-2017 11:40
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Fred99:

 

 

 

It's nothing to do with being grammatically correct.

 

What you've said above - if including yourself as you do in the example "We seem to be very acceptable to it" when it's very clear that you're not at all accepting it, defies logic.

 

The point you are missing is that I said "we seem", which makes it an opinion. I did not say "we are". There is a difference, and I am entitled to say it in that sense.

 

Fred99:For someone who now admits a need to go do some more research on something so basic, you've been extremely forward in presenting uninformed opinion as if it was fact.

 

You just using income tax in your example and ignoring all other tax. Income tax is not the only tax in NZ, overall our tax rates are still very high.


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1845072 11-Aug-2017 11:45
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Fred99:

 

That's patently absurd.  There's been nothing but (income) tax decreases over the past 30 years.

 

...

 

 

Really?

 

22 December 1999

 

 

 

The Government today introduced legislation to increase the top personal income tax rate from 33% to 39% for income over $60,000, and the fringe benefit tax rate from 49% to 64%

 

 

 

 

Fred99:

 

...you've been extremely forward in presenting uninformed opinion as if it was fact.

 

...

 

As have you!




581 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1845075 11-Aug-2017 11:46
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tdgeek:

 

End of the day unless the Govt is stupid or we are always in a budgetary surplus, we cannot say that our taxes are too high.

 

 

I don't buy it. So a 100% tax rate then is not too high?


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  Reply # 1845077 11-Aug-2017 11:48
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Wiggum:

 

tdgeek:

 

End of the day unless the Govt is stupid or we are always in a budgetary surplus, we cannot say that our taxes are too high.

 

 

I don't buy it. So a 100% tax rate then is not too high?

 

 

What are you on about. I never mentioned a 100% tax rate, which in itself is a stupid figure. How about covering off what the Govt needs to do to reduce taxes.




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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1845078 11-Aug-2017 11:50
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tdgeek:

 

Wiggum:

 

tdgeek:

 

End of the day unless the Govt is stupid or we are always in a budgetary surplus, we cannot say that our taxes are too high.

 

 

I don't buy it. So a 100% tax rate then is not too high?

 

 

What are you on about. I never mentioned a 100% tax rate, which in itself is a stupid figure. How about covering off what the Govt needs to do to reduce taxes.

 

 

Well you say that I can't say that taxes are too high. Therefore I am asking you if you think a 100% tax rate can be considered as too high?

 

tdgeek: Unless you compared countries with the same levels of tax funded services, you cannot compare Income tax rates

 

I don't need to know what tax rates are in other countries, why should their taxes be my measuring stick? Taxes are too high IMO if I am getting a lower return on what I am paying.

 

 

 

 


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1845084 11-Aug-2017 11:55
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Wiggum:

 

Fred99:

 

That's patently absurd.  There's been nothing but (income) tax decreases over the past 30 years.

 

Please also don't use "we" that way.  You're neither entitled to by Royalty - nor AFAIK spokesperson for anybody but yourself - and certainly not for "me".

 

 

I will have to go do some more research on that, I do know that our tax rates are pretty high, including fuel tax, tobacco/alcohol tax, GST. All of them have gone up. Income tax is not our only tax. We seem to be very acceptable to it, and when traveling overseas its very clear, at how we are ripped off by these taxes as it is. Apologies for using the words "we seem", I did not realize you were part of the grammar police!

 

 

 

 

You are both correct. Income taxes have decreased and that is the one that most people seem to focus on. It is after all a more "saleable" proposition. Consumption taxes have however increased. Tax Revenues I believe are the key indicators by which countries are judged.

 

Personally I would rather have a lower income tax but higher consumption tax. To me that seems the fairer way to go.

 

We certainly have a high Tax to GDP Ratio (I think still the highest). When tax revenues grow at a slower rate than the GDP of a country, the tax-to-GDP ratio drops; when tax revenue grows faster than GDP, the ratio increases. With NZ at the top or constantly in the top 8, it indicates that we have healthy tax growth. Well to me it does, but I am probably wrong lol.

 

http://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/Tax_revenue/


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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1845085 11-Aug-2017 11:56
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6FIEND:

 

 

 

As have you!

 

 

My error.  I forgot about that blip in the otherwise nearly continuous path reducing personal income tax marginal rates.


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  Reply # 1845087 11-Aug-2017 12:00
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DaveB:

 

Wiggum:

 

Fred99:

 

That's patently absurd.  There's been nothing but (income) tax decreases over the past 30 years.

 

Please also don't use "we" that way.  You're neither entitled to by Royalty - nor AFAIK spokesperson for anybody but yourself - and certainly not for "me".

 

 

I will have to go do some more research on that, I do know that our tax rates are pretty high, including fuel tax, tobacco/alcohol tax, GST. All of them have gone up. Income tax is not our only tax. We seem to be very acceptable to it, and when traveling overseas its very clear, at how we are ripped off by these taxes as it is. Apologies for using the words "we seem", I did not realize you were part of the grammar police!

 

 

 

 

You are both correct. Income taxes have decreased and that is the one that most people seem to focus on. It is after all a more "saleable" proposition. Consumption taxes have however increased. Tax Revenues I believe are the key indicators by which countries are judged.

 

Personally I would rather have a lower income tax but higher consumption tax. To me that seems the fairer way to go.

 

We certainly have a high Tax to GDP Ratio (I think still the highest). When tax revenues grow at a slower rate than the GDP of a country, the tax-to-GDP ratio drops; when tax revenue grows faster than GDP, the ratio increases. With NZ at the top or constantly in the top 8, it indicates that we have healthy tax growth. Well to me it does, but I am probably wrong lol.

 

http://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/Tax_revenue/

 

 

NZ has a fully funded health system and a wide ranging social support system, it would be interesting to know if the lower tax nations fund as much as we do. Also what effect our small size has on our economies of scale.


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