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19145 posts

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  #1847008 15-Aug-2017 12:57
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mrfte:

 

 

 

In my first IT job, the first thing my trainer taught me was to work at any issue from the root to the top. Band-aid fixes rarely last and the real world is no bed of roses..

 

 

What band aid fix? Having parents of varying availability and ability teaching kids budgeting and driving? Thats a band aid. Teaching them these two life skills in school, using one standard curriculum is how you get what is wanted.  So you have got it right, just back to front


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  #1847033 15-Aug-2017 13:57
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"Give free gains and it kills the need to better oneself."

 

Rubbish look at my generation we had a free education system and It definitely encouraged people to better themselves.

 

I still cant see how people who had this free education could impose the system we have today on todays learners.

 

 

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  #1847076 15-Aug-2017 14:21
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gulfa:

 

"Give free gains and it kills the need to better oneself."

 

Rubbish look at my generation we had a free education system and It definitely encouraged people to better themselves.

 

I still cant see how people who had this free education could impose the system we have today on todays learners.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yup, I'm sure in your time the system was flawless churning out upstanding citizens only because it was free.

 

But - I do agree that if anything should be made free, it should be education. Wonder if it will make an improvement on that 40% though... seeing how anyone can get interest free student loans and there are loads of jobs if you study and graduate in a subject in demand.


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  #1847082 15-Aug-2017 14:32
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WE could make education free, a one off tax increase would bring that about


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  #1847093 15-Aug-2017 14:48
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tdgeek:

 

WE could make education free, a one off tax increase would bring that about

 

 

I'm going to assume that you're referring to Tertiary Education here?

 

I would be in favour of that in principle, however I would include a couple of caveats:

 

1) Re-instate the University Entrance qualification.  (ie. demonstrate that you have a minimum level of competency before you request that the taxpayer funds an education that is beyond your (current) ability to derive value from.)

 

2) Require a minimum C+ average for the year before funding the next year's study.  (ie. demonstrate ongoing application and diligence)

 

Almost any scenario where things are provided for free without any obligation invariably leads to misuse/abuse.

 

 

 

It's also worth noting that Tertiary Education is *heavily* subsidised by taxpayers already.  You'd be increasing the level of contribution, not introducing an all new programme.


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  #1847105 15-Aug-2017 15:01
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6FIEND:

 

tdgeek:

 

WE could make education free, a one off tax increase would bring that about

 

 

I'm going to assume that you're referring to Tertiary Education here?

 

I would be in favour of that in principle, however I would include a couple of caveats:

 

1) Re-instate the University Entrance qualification.  (ie. demonstrate that you have a minimum level of competency before you request that the taxpayer funds an education that is beyond your (current) ability to derive value from.)

 

2) Require a minimum C+ average for the year before funding the next year's study.  (ie. demonstrate ongoing application and diligence)

 

Almost any scenario where things are provided for free without any obligation invariably leads to misuse/abuse.

 

 

 

It's also worth noting that Tertiary Education is *heavily* subsidised by taxpayers already.  You'd be increasing the level of contribution, not introducing an all new programme.

 

 

 

 

Completely agree. Years ago, before deciding to invest 40K for a PG course in Waikato, I was researching how/why EU countries provide "free" education. Few things stood out: 

 

1) Even with no tuition fees, students barely get any money from the govt towards food and lodging so they end up having to work 20hrs a week no matter what to survive the high cost of living thanks to a high tax system.

 

2) The universities are bare-bone places of study with most of them not having any sort of funds going towards extra-curricular activities like the gym or other social clubs. This allowed the university to invest more in educational infrastructure and high quality teachers.

 

 


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  #1847112 15-Aug-2017 15:11
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6FIEND:

 

tdgeek:

 

WE could make education free, a one off tax increase would bring that about

 

 

I'm going to assume that you're referring to Tertiary Education here?

 

I would be in favour of that in principle, however I would include a couple of caveats:

 

1) Re-instate the University Entrance qualification.  (ie. demonstrate that you have a minimum level of competency before you request that the taxpayer funds an education that is beyond your (current) ability to derive value from.)

 

2) Require a minimum C+ average for the year before funding the next year's study.  (ie. demonstrate ongoing application and diligence)

 

Almost any scenario where things are provided for free without any obligation invariably leads to misuse/abuse.

 

 

 

It's also worth noting that Tertiary Education is *heavily* subsidised by taxpayers already.  You'd be increasing the level of contribution, not introducing an all new programme.

 

 

Agree. The education system is a burden for the lower socio economic families, and a barrier to their kids

 

UE is a great idea to bring back

 

Instead of being free, it could be a loan, no repayments, and when in x years its wiped. If you go overseas, it gets paid back at market interest rates. Some formula that repaid exported education but allowed a return to NZ to work and still to benefit from the funding.

 

 

 

Re my tax comment, I threw that in, in case it was another tax cut fan.


 
 
 
 


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  #1847118 15-Aug-2017 15:14
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6FIEND:

 

tdgeek:

 

WE could make education free, a one off tax increase would bring that about

 

 

I'm going to assume that you're referring to Tertiary Education here?

 

I would be in favour of that in principle, however I would include a couple of caveats:

 

1) Re-instate the University Entrance qualification.  (ie. demonstrate that you have a minimum level of competency before you request that the taxpayer funds an education that is beyond your (current) ability to derive value from.)

 

2) Require a minimum C+ average for the year before funding the next year's study.  (ie. demonstrate ongoing application and diligence)

 

Almost any scenario where things are provided for free without any obligation invariably leads to misuse/abuse.

 

 

 

It's also worth noting that Tertiary Education is *heavily* subsidised by taxpayers already.  You'd be increasing the level of contribution, not introducing an all new programme.

 

 

 

 

You still do need to meet entrance standards before enrolment applications are accepted.

 

TEC has quite a tight hold on number of EFT students in programs offered by institutions, partly based on modelling / forecasts.

 

There's also follow-up of completion rates, short and long-term job placement, that's used to limit EFT funding for non performing programmes and institutions.

 

Despite the government subsidy, cost is still a barrier for many potential students.

 

There's also not a direct correlation between performance of students at school guaranteeing success in tertiary study, and a significant number of people who benefit from "second chance" learning.

 

The bitching by some academics about "quality of students these days" should be always taken with a grain of salt.  Especially if they've got a history of bleating about resourcing, staff:student ratios etc.

 

 


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  #1847119 15-Aug-2017 15:16
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Agree with you.

 

If only we could Govts to look at a change back This gives those in the lower socio-economic group an opportunity




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  #1848478 18-Aug-2017 11:40
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gulfa:

 

"Give free gains and it kills the need to better oneself."

 

Rubbish look at my generation we had a free education system and It definitely encouraged people to better themselves.

 

I still cant see how people who had this free education could impose the system we have today on todays learners.

 

 

Not sure what you on about. In NZ everybody is already really getting mostly free education (school/college). Sure there are some costs involved here, but its so low that IMO its free.

 

What an awesome country we live in!

 

Tertiary education is different, and it should remain so. I don't believe taxpayers should be liable for this bill. In the good old days yes people use to get it for free, and that's not the case any more. Everybody in this country has access to student loans/tertiary education, this is a good thing. People that go to Uni etc, raking up huge bills (accommodation allowances/transport allowances/living expenses allowances while studing etc), and failing/falling out should never become a taxpayer burden.

 

It has always amazed me at how many allowances students take up these days to study. Its no wonder that the average graduate is nearly bankrupt before he/she has even started first day at work. I dont want to subsidize all that.




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  #1848484 18-Aug-2017 11:45
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Rikkitic:

 

I am really running out of patience with this kind of self-serving crap. If people want to be armed survivalists who only care about themselves, then they should move to a place that welcomes that kind of selfishness. Hopefully that place will never be New Zealand.

 

 

Since when did "hard working" to earn decent money, to give my kids and family a good lifestyle/education become "self serving"?

 

Thats not selfishness. And its not selfishness to want to limit my taxes as much as possible, to rather provide/give them to my family.

 

 




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  #1848500 18-Aug-2017 11:54
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tdgeek:

 

What band aid fix? Having parents of varying availability and ability teaching kids budgeting and driving? Thats a band aid. Teaching them these two life skills in school, using one standard curriculum is how you get what is wanted.  So you have got it right, just back to front

 

 

No a band aid is doing it in the schools, because you trying to fix something that the parents should be doing.

 

 


Lock him up!
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  #1848503 18-Aug-2017 12:01
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Wiggum:

 

tdgeek:

 

What band aid fix? Having parents of varying availability and ability teaching kids budgeting and driving? Thats a band aid. Teaching them these two life skills in school, using one standard curriculum is how you get what is wanted.  So you have got it right, just back to front

 

 

No a band aid is doing it in the schools, because you trying to fix something that the parents should be doing.

 

 

 

 

Oh yes the parents should be doing it. Bad parents. All their fault. So punish them by chucking their children on the rubbish tip. That'll teach 'em. Oh, wait. They don't care They're bad parents. Too bad about the children, though. They should have chosen better parents.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


19145 posts

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  #1848505 18-Aug-2017 12:05
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Wiggum:

 

tdgeek:

 

What band aid fix? Having parents of varying availability and ability teaching kids budgeting and driving? Thats a band aid. Teaching them these two life skills in school, using one standard curriculum is how you get what is wanted.  So you have got it right, just back to front

 

 

No a band aid is doing it in the schools, because you trying to fix something that the parents should be doing.

 

 

 

 

Don't buy it.

 

 


19145 posts

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  #1848507 18-Aug-2017 12:07
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Rikkitic:

 

Wiggum:

 

tdgeek:

 

What band aid fix? Having parents of varying availability and ability teaching kids budgeting and driving? Thats a band aid. Teaching them these two life skills in school, using one standard curriculum is how you get what is wanted.  So you have got it right, just back to front

 

 

No a band aid is doing it in the schools, because you trying to fix something that the parents should be doing.

 

 

 

 

Oh yes the parents should be doing it. Bad parents. All their fault. So punish them by chucking their children on the rubbish tip. That'll teach 'em. Oh, wait. They don't care They're bad parents. Too bad about the children, though. They should have chosen better parents.

 

 

 

 

Maybe in the Utopia he lives in, we should round up the parents and deal with them for failing, and pick any generation. Maybe that might allow for more tax cuts.. :-)


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