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1199 posts

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  # 1848509 18-Aug-2017 12:14
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Rikkitic:

 

 

 

Oh yes the parents should be doing it. Bad parents. All their fault. So punish them by chucking their children on the rubbish tip. That'll teach 'em. Oh, wait. They don't care They're bad parents. Too bad about the children, though. They should have chosen better parents.

 

 

Parents who fail, and continue to fail at being parents should be punished before it becomes a taxpayer problem. Anything else is a band aid.

 

I'm quiet happy to fund/helpout these children. But at the same time, I am not happy to fund lousy parents.


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Ultimate Geek


  # 1848510 18-Aug-2017 12:16
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Surely this is one of the problems Parenting skills But if we dont break this cycle the base of the problem will just become bigger.

 

Children are not to blame we need to lift them out of these unfortunate circumstances or we will not progress, This is not going to be an easy fix

 

but we need to move on it now. Education is not free even at the early stages of pre school look around and ask parents involved and you will see 

 

that many cannot even afford to get their children to early childhood learning centres. Don't tell me that this is the kids problem.


 
 
 
 


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  # 1848515 18-Aug-2017 12:38
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Possibly related, my SO in a previous role was involved with allocation of scholarships to students from groups known to be disadvantaged.  Many of the scholarships went unfilled simply because there weren't enough applicants who could meet basic academic entrance criteria and/or despite the possibility of significant subsidy, they still couldn't afford to study full-time.

 

 




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  # 1848521 18-Aug-2017 13:03
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gulfa:

 

Surely this is one of the problems Parenting skills But if we dont break this cycle the base of the problem will just become bigger.

 

Children are not to blame we need to lift them out of these unfortunate circumstances or we will not progress, This is not going to be an easy fix

 

but we need to move on it now. Education is not free even at the early stages of pre school look around and ask parents involved and you will see 

 

that many cannot even afford to get their children to early childhood learning centres. Don't tell me that this is the kids problem.

 

 

You seem to be implying that free tertiary education is going to fix poor parenting problems. Thats quiet an assumption as far as I am concerned. Bad parenting comes to all walks of life. Yes more funding may help the children, its a band-aid, and is definitely not a fix to break any bad parenting cycle.

 

I know people with university degrees, that have become druggies, and IMO some of the worst parents I have ever encountered in my entire life. Others just lazy, living off the benefit, plenty of kids and just short of living in a shoe!

 

Your shinny tax payer funded ambulance is so far from the bottom of the cliff, its practically in the morgue.

 

 

 

 


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  # 1848524 18-Aug-2017 13:12
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So what is your solution, other than punishing the parents (which won't help the children). These kinds of discussions always become excuses for doing nothing.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 




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  # 1848528 18-Aug-2017 13:24
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Rikkitic:

 

So what is your solution, other than punishing the parents (which won't help the children). These kinds of discussions always become excuses for doing nothing.

 

 

 

 

Your solution is to punish the taxpayer (everybody else but the parents). This just shifts accountability/responsibility from the parents, to government. It actually contributes to the cycle of poor parenting. I don't have to worry about my kids, its my right that the government should clothe them, feed them, put them through school/uni etc at everybody else's expense.

 

Nothing wrong with punishing parents if its going to make them better parents. For a start, a possible solution would be to take a harder stance against parents that neglect their responsibilities for their kids. Thats criminal.


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  # 1848530 18-Aug-2017 13:29
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I guess this is a problem where we will have a group of people who will always elect their party regardless of what they do.  I would suggest around about 30%. I have no research to back this up. 

 

But if we take the two main parties and tally that it gives us 60% of the voters.  That leaves 40% of others which I would suggest around 20% probably don't vote and the other 20% which I place myself 

 

are the swinging voters who will make the difference. Just my thoughts Some people will never change their points of view. End of discussion for me


 
 
 
 


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  # 1848537 18-Aug-2017 13:41
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Maybe I will vote for Labour just to annoy the frothing Right.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 1848538 18-Aug-2017 13:45
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Wiggum:

 

Your solution is to punish the taxpayer (everybody else but the parents). This just shifts accountability/responsibility from the parents, to government. It actually contributes to the cycle of poor parenting. I don't have to worry about my kids, its my right that the government should clothe them, feed them, put them through school/uni etc at everybody else's expense.

 

Nothing wrong with punishing parents if its going to make them better parents. For a start, a possible solution would be to take a harder stance against parents that neglect their responsibilities for their kids. Thats criminal.

 

 

Right. Mum's a junkie and doesn't know who she is anymore. Dad's in jail and already owes thousands in unpaid fines. They don't have anything to take away. There is nothing left to sanction them with. So how do you plan to punish them?

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 




1199 posts

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  # 1848549 18-Aug-2017 14:00
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Rikkitic:

 

Wiggum:

 

Your solution is to punish the taxpayer (everybody else but the parents). This just shifts accountability/responsibility from the parents, to government. It actually contributes to the cycle of poor parenting. I don't have to worry about my kids, its my right that the government should clothe them, feed them, put them through school/uni etc at everybody else's expense.

 

Nothing wrong with punishing parents if its going to make them better parents. For a start, a possible solution would be to take a harder stance against parents that neglect their responsibilities for their kids. Thats criminal.

 

 

Right. Mum's a junkie and doesn't know who she is anymore. Dad's in jail and already owes thousands in unpaid fines. They don't have anything to take away. There is nothing left to sanction them with. So how do you plan to punish them?

 

 

Nice example? If Mum is looking after her kids, and she is a Junkie, well she should be thrown into jail too.

 

The kids would be better off in a foster home without junkie Mom.

 

But obviously from your example, you probably think its criminal to take kids away from junkie Mom? IMO its criminal leaving the kids in this mothers care.

 

 


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  # 1848555 18-Aug-2017 14:10
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Maybe you should consider offering to foster. Those homes have to come from somewhere and you might be able to help some of those unfortunate kids. I think they would even give you some of your hard-earned taxes back in exchange.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 




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  # 1848569 18-Aug-2017 14:15
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Rikkitic:

 

Maybe I will vote for Labour just to annoy the frothing Right.

 

 

LOL As if you would ever have voted for any party on the right anyway! Its your vote, you entitled to vote for whoever you want, I will not get annoyed by it.

 

What I do know though, is a vote for the left is a vote for $2118pa of less household income in our household. So its an easy decision for me. If you have money to throw away on the 1st of April then go on and give your vote to Labour tongue-out




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  # 1848573 18-Aug-2017 14:23
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Rikkitic:

 

Maybe you should consider offering to foster. Those homes have to come from somewhere and you might be able to help some of those unfortunate kids. I think they would even give you some of your hard-earned taxes back in exchange.

 

 

 

 

It is my understanding that there are is desperate shortage of foster homes in NZ. (Feel free to correct me if I am wrong) Us New Zealanders are really a generous bunch.

 

You have quiet conveniently dodged some of my other questions.


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  # 1848579 18-Aug-2017 14:30
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What would those be? You seem to think you can fix social issues by punishing people. I think the way to fix them is by changing people. You don't change people though punishment. You do it through education and by giving them better options. It is a long-term process that requires patience. You start with the kids.

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


83 posts

Master Geek


  # 1848585 18-Aug-2017 15:01
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Rikkitic:

 

What would those be? You seem to think you can fix social issues by punishing people. I think the way to fix them is by changing people. You don't change people though punishment. You do it through education and by giving them better options. It is a long-term process that requires patience. You start with the kids.

 

 

Life is not fair. There will always be winners and losers. No one is going to sit and hold your hand explaining why you were in the wrong. Adults know when they're in the wrong and shy from being responsible anyways because it's too much effort and it's easier to take chances - because, most often it's someone else paying the price for it. We can't keep babying people through adult life. Most lessons in responsibility are usually learnt via a swift kick up the rear.


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