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  Reply # 1855738 31-Aug-2017 10:14
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MikeB4:

 

An experienced politician/diplomat would be doing everything to deescalate the situation. But that does not appeal to the armchair generals of lounge heroes. Both side of a war are losers. Do you not see that Trumps threats to North Korea are the same as North Korea's? that is why i wrote "Both sides need to can the BS and go back to their sand pits."

 

 

I do not, and not even close. yes, we know what he has said, but this issue is decades old, and whatever Trump said, is minor compared to s;licing the arms off all yankees, vapourising the yankee homeland and so on.

 

I feel that while it is very justifiable to bag the US on MANY issues, bagging them here is wrong. They have been in talks, signed agreements, gave food and oil for a long long time, and it hasnt worked. Now they are being told we will fire missiles at your homeland. That is apparently not that bad. What if the US sad, and did, fire 4 missiles to land 25 miles from a NK port? Same thing, except it is NOT ok. But for NK, it is ok, and it is.

 

 

 

Lets say that an agreement is made, where NK will de nuclearise, back off at the DMZ, be nice, no more snactions, as long as the US leaves. Now, all in the region would be happy for peace, US has no need to stay there defending itself and SK and Japan, every nation will be happy, except one. NZ. KJU doesn't want peace, he doesnt want his people chatting to SK, seeing what they have, he will lose all power. Its suits KJU to be status quo, its his only option

 

 


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  Reply # 1855740 31-Aug-2017 10:17
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MikeB4:

 

Wiggum:

 

MikeB4:

 

And if the  US does nothing, North Korea will do nothing and we all win, but especially the millions living on the Korean peninsular.

 

 

What exactly is the US doing? I don't see them testing missiles destined for NK. Or threatening NK with them either. They already doing practically nothing.

 

 

 

 

Have you listened or read what Trump has been saying ? (thankfully his top General is saying things differently) Flying B1's strategic bombers over the peninsular, sending Carrier Battle groups to the region, threatening to bring fire and fury to North Korea...... Both sides need to can the BS and go back to their sand pits.

 

 

The difference is one side has engaged in talks for a long long time, to avoid nuclear problems. Now the nuclear problem is where they are now a target. 

 

Sorry, but NK is not that bad, US is evil, is plain wrong


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1855750 31-Aug-2017 10:30
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MikeB4:

 

Wiggum:

 

 

 

So you want to offer North Koreans free food and medicine? I dont see how this can work? Remember we are all enemies of NK, and every North Korean firmly believes that too. They have been so brainwashed by Kim and his propaganda, that they will rather die than accept food or medicine from the West.

 

 

 

 

Sanctions do not hurt those in power it is only those that can do squat about it that are suffering.

 

 

They should stop and reduce needed military supplies, but they dont, as no doubt China and Russia support them. Sanctions should bring the country to its knees, much as bombing transport lines did in the olden days wars, but it doesn't as it will be supported by outside help, and yes, the citizens will suffer. But what about that they are suffering anyway via a 24/7 sanction from their leader?  

 

IMHO, this is probably the best example of a need for regime change, as its not about fake WMD, or oil supplies. Its about a real threat to multiple countries, and its about the lost citizens of NK. And decades of reneging and lying have demonstrated that talks are a no go, because peace will end his reign


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  Reply # 1855753 31-Aug-2017 10:32
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

The difference is one side has engaged in talks for a long long time, to avoid nuclear problems. Now the nuclear problem is where they are now a target. 

 

Sorry, but NK is not that bad, US is evil, is plain wrong

 

 

 

 

The US is not in range yet. Even if NK could get a missile at the range required it is certainly not clear if they have the ability to guide it to a target or have the Warhead successfully survive re-entry, reach its target area and detonate. The cost of not talking is too high. I see the rhetoric coming from both Pyongyang and Washington as being the same both are making the same threats.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1855759 31-Aug-2017 10:37
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MikeB4:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

The difference is one side has engaged in talks for a long long time, to avoid nuclear problems. Now the nuclear problem is where they are now a target. 

 

Sorry, but NK is not that bad, US is evil, is plain wrong

 

 

 

 

The US is not in range yet. Even if NK could get a missile at the range required it is certainly not clear if they have the ability to guide it to a target or have the Warhead successfully survive re-entry, reach its target area and detonate. The cost of not talking is too high. I see the rhetoric coming from both Pyongyang and Washington as being the same both are making the same threats.

 

 

Irrelevant...they must be stopped before the capability is there. Clearly NK are going to engage when they have the capability.


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  Reply # 1855764 31-Aug-2017 10:44
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MikeB4:

 

Wiggum:

 

Fred99:

 

The USA has an appalling history of "dealing with" potentially aggressive dictatorships. 

 

 

I don't know of any alternatives? Offering free candy maybe?

 

 

 

 

In a way yes but not candy but food and medicine.

 

 

 

 

I dunno, Kim looks pretty partial to candy if you ask me.





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  Reply # 1855767 31-Aug-2017 10:47
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tdgeek:

 

That is apparently not that bad. What if the US sad, and did, fire 4 missiles to land 25 miles from a NK port? Same thing, except it is NOT ok. But for NK, it is ok, and it is.

 

 

 

 

It's not OK for them either, but as long as they're only throwing stones in the ocean, it isn't worth starting a war that will kill millions.





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  Reply # 1855769 31-Aug-2017 10:50
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Pumpedd:

 

MikeB4:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

The difference is one side has engaged in talks for a long long time, to avoid nuclear problems. Now the nuclear problem is where they are now a target. 

 

Sorry, but NK is not that bad, US is evil, is plain wrong

 

 

 

 

The US is not in range yet. Even if NK could get a missile at the range required it is certainly not clear if they have the ability to guide it to a target or have the Warhead successfully survive re-entry, reach its target area and detonate. The cost of not talking is too high. I see the rhetoric coming from both Pyongyang and Washington as being the same both are making the same threats.

 

 

Irrelevant...they must be stopped before the capability is there. Clearly NK are going to engage when they have the capability.

 

 

 

 

except in my lifetime I have heard the same about China, the then USSR,Cuba, Iran, Iraq.......

 

 

 

How does the US stop them? a pre-emptive strike? China has already said they will not tolerate that and what sort of first strike would be needed in order to prevent the loss of Seoul and other high population areas on the border with NK? there is 10 million folks in the Seoul/ Inchon region alone. What about Japan? they would be a retaliation target and likely fallout target as would China and Russia.

 

 

 

 





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1855822 31-Aug-2017 11:17
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MikeB4:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

The difference is one side has engaged in talks for a long long time, to avoid nuclear problems. Now the nuclear problem is where they are now a target. 

 

Sorry, but NK is not that bad, US is evil, is plain wrong

 

 

 

 

The US is not in range yet. Even if NK could get a missile at the range required it is certainly not clear if they have the ability to guide it to a target or have the Warhead successfully survive re-entry, reach its target area and detonate. The cost of not talking is too high. I see the rhetoric coming from both Pyongyang and Washington as being the same both are making the same threats.

 

 

From what I have read over time, is that NK is years away. Now, they are making far quicker progress. They have won. Sure,l they can talk, but that has provide a zero solution to date, and it has bought time for NK to develop, where now even China is saying that accepting a nuclear NK is one option.

 

Id like to hear what talks could provide, to me that's a long time proven failure, and that has cost us big time. NK played us like fools, now they are a nuclear nation who can tell us to pour face that they will send 4 missiles to Guam, and thats just taken a rhetoric, but the US cannot talk about that as its their fault for aggravating the situation.


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  Reply # 1855824 31-Aug-2017 11:18
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Some people here sure do want a war. Maybe they should go to ground zero so they can get the full enjoyment of it when it starts.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1855827 31-Aug-2017 11:20
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MikeB4:

 

Pumpedd:

 

MikeB4:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

The difference is one side has engaged in talks for a long long time, to avoid nuclear problems. Now the nuclear problem is where they are now a target. 

 

Sorry, but NK is not that bad, US is evil, is plain wrong

 

 

 

 

The US is not in range yet. Even if NK could get a missile at the range required it is certainly not clear if they have the ability to guide it to a target or have the Warhead successfully survive re-entry, reach its target area and detonate. The cost of not talking is too high. I see the rhetoric coming from both Pyongyang and Washington as being the same both are making the same threats.

 

 

Irrelevant...they must be stopped before the capability is there. Clearly NK are going to engage when they have the capability.

 

 

 

 

except in my lifetime I have heard the same about China, the then USSR,Cuba, Iran, Iraq.......

 

 

 

How does the US stop them? a pre-emptive strike? China has already said they will not tolerate that and what sort of first strike would be needed in order to prevent the loss of Seoul and other high population areas on the border with NK? there is 10 million folks in the Seoul/ Inchon region alone. What about Japan? they would be a retaliation target and likely fallout target as would China and Russia.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The US will never pre emptively strike. When Nk does something that is seen as a strike, then the US will respond, then the rest of your paragraph will occur, to SK and Japan. SK cannot be defended anyhow


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  Reply # 1855828 31-Aug-2017 11:22
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Rikkitic:

 

Some people here sure do want a war. Maybe they should go to ground zero so they can get the full enjoyment of it when it starts.

 

 

 

 

What do you suggest? Talks, food and oil, etc. Thats all been done and all it has allowed is time for NK to reneg and develope toi the point where the rhetoric is now very real. Another option is status quo, and just let this sizzle for decades to come, thats probably the only safe way. Welcome to nuclear land NK, you win


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  Reply # 1855838 31-Aug-2017 11:36
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Soon a drone the size of a mosquito will slip through Kim's window and he will die of a mysterious fat boy heart attack. His country will descend into chaos as different factions fight for control. South Korea and China will bring in massive amounts of food aid to support the starving population. Gradually things will settle down and eventually a Hong Kong style administration will be imposed, enabling China to maintain its buffer against the West and South Korea to have normal relations with a friendly northern neighbour.

 

 





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  Reply # 1855868 31-Aug-2017 11:52
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tdgeek:

 

The US will never pre emptively strike. When Nk does something that is seen as a strike, then the US will respond, then the rest of your paragraph will occur, to SK and Japan. SK cannot be defended anyhow

 

 

 

 

You wot!? Pre-emptive war is the US foreign policy signature move of the 20th Century!





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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


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  Reply # 1855872 31-Aug-2017 11:53
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Rikkitic:

 

Soon a drone the size of a mosquito will slip through Kim's window and he will die of a mysterious fat boy heart attack. His country will descend into chaos as different factions fight for control. South Korea and China will bring in massive amounts of food aid to support the starving population. Gradually things will settle down and eventually a Hong Kong style administration will be imposed, enabling China to maintain its buffer against the West and South Korea to have normal relations with a friendly northern neighbour.

 

 

 

 

Thats the hope. Maybe the drone will be sent by his own, or SK or the US, but whoever does, that outcome would be great. The chaos its hard to say. The Military aka Govt, will probably take a breath of fresh air, its hard to know if they will erupt into a civil war type situation. If we knew what the top military feel about KJU and not what they show, that would answer it. But ultimately your suggestion would bring peace, China in control, US pushed aside, Russia happy. SK its hard to say as will SK work with China, or will China be the bully and do a psuedo takeover? What has NK got mineral wise that anyone wants?


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