The Terrifying True Scale of Nuclear Weapons

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tdgeek

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#1859574 6-Sep-2017 11:53

Rikkitic:

I don't have sources because it was a long time ago and too much trouble to look up, but one incident occurred in the 1980s in Europe. It was when Nato was staging a big military exercise. The Soviets knew that but something still triggered their automated defenses. It was only the action of one officer who knew something was wrong that prevented a retaliatory strike that probably would have started WWIII.

The other one was during the Cuban missile crisis when a Soviet sub lost contact with home and nearly nuked the American fleet because it thought the war had started. Again, it was just one Soviet officer who felt something was wrong and prevented the launch.

That one was mentioned in whatever article I read. I must look for it tonight, it was fascinating and scary

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MikeB4

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#1859583 6-Sep-2017 12:11

Rikkitic:

I don't have sources because it was a long time ago and too much trouble to look up, but one incident occurred in the 1980s in Europe. It was when Nato was staging a big military exercise. The Soviets knew that but something still triggered their automated defenses. It was only the action of one officer who knew something was wrong that prevented a retaliatory strike that probably would have started WWIII.

The other one was during the Cuban missile crisis when a Soviet sub lost contact with home and nearly nuked the American fleet because it thought the war had started. Again, it was just one Soviet officer who felt something was wrong and prevented the launch.

I remember reading about that in history, it was a damn close run thing possibly even closer than the Cuban missile crisis.

MikeB4

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#1859585 6-Sep-2017 12:14

If any party tries to get rid of NZ's anti nuclear stand I will get out my protest size and march ok wheel my way to Parliament. I hate those abominations and their evil sister/brother nuclear power

Wiggum

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#1859595 6-Sep-2017 12:19

MikeB4:

If any party tries to get rid of NZ's anti nuclear stand I will get out my protest size and march ok wheel my way to Parliament. I hate those abominations and their evil sister/brother nuclear power

Even if another country has its nukes pointed at us?

MikeB4

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#1859603 6-Sep-2017 12:23

Wiggum:

MikeB4:

If any party tries to get rid of NZ's anti nuclear stand I will get out my protest size and march ok wheel my way to Parliament. I hate those abominations and their evil sister/brother nuclear power

Even if another country has its nukes pointed at us?

Yes, and why on earth would a nation with limited nukes aim them at us? and those with large arsenals have no need to aim them at us.

Wiggum

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#1859620 6-Sep-2017 12:39

MikeB4:

Wiggum:

MikeB4:

If any party tries to get rid of NZ's anti nuclear stand I will get out my protest size and march ok wheel my way to Parliament. I hate those abominations and their evil sister/brother nuclear power

Even if another country has its nukes pointed at us?

Yes, and why on earth would a nation with limited nukes aim them at us? and those with large arsenals have no need to aim them at us.

Was just using that as an example, because thats why countries like the Russia/US have nukes after all.

Its all very good and well to say that we as a country should stay nuclear free, but if the tables were turned, and we had nukes pointing our way (and a madman with finger on button), we certainly would not be discussing keeping NZ nuclear free. We would be discussing how fast we could build our own.

We need to be aiming at getting the world nuclear free. The USA could start, but I doubt that it would without any sort of commitment from Russia to do the same. If just Russia and the US got rid of their nukes, it would be a huge achievement and the pressure could start on the rest of the world to do the same. Ideally we need Russia/USA and China together on this one. But doubt that's going to happen anytime soon, or ever.

Geektastic

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#1860633 8-Sep-2017 07:00

Having grown up with the Red Army staring at us across the border and the Berlin Wall, only a couple of hundred miles away, with nuclear weapons stored less than 40 miles from my childhood home, it doesn't seem much less safe today to me.

Fred99

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#1860658 8-Sep-2017 08:19

MikeB4:

If any party tries to get rid of NZ's anti nuclear stand I will get out my protest size and march ok wheel my way to Parliament. I hate those abominations and their evil sister/brother nuclear power

Not on your own you won't. I'd be there.

Fred99

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#1860663 8-Sep-2017 08:30

Wiggum:

MikeB4:

Wiggum:

MikeB4:

If any party tries to get rid of NZ's anti nuclear stand I will get out my protest size and march ok wheel my way to Parliament. I hate those abominations and their evil sister/brother nuclear power

Even if another country has its nukes pointed at us?

Yes, and why on earth would a nation with limited nukes aim them at us? and those with large arsenals have no need to aim them at us.

Was just using that as an example, because thats why countries like the Russia/US have nukes after all.

Its all very good and well to say that we as a country should stay nuclear free, but if the tables were turned, and we had nukes pointing our way (and a madman with finger on button), we certainly would not be discussing keeping NZ nuclear free. We would be discussing how fast we could build our own.

We need to be aiming at getting the world nuclear free. The USA could start, but I doubt that it would without any sort of commitment from Russia to do the same. If just Russia and the US got rid of their nukes, it would be a huge achievement and the pressure could start on the rest of the world to do the same. Ideally we need Russia/USA and China together on this one. But doubt that's going to happen anytime soon, or ever.

Integral to the concept of MAD (mutually assured destruction) which arguably has meant that nobody has launched a nuclear strike since WW2, is the concept that the nuclear weapons can be delivered to target.

That's why anti-ballistic missile systems are included in nuclear treaty negotiations, and is one of the reasons why China is so p*ssed at the USA/SK. China has a very limited number of nuclear weapons - a tiny fraction of the US or Russian arsenal. If the USA/SK "coincidentally" set up anti-missile systems claimed to be to counter the threat from NK, but which also could be used to knock out Chinese nuclear capability, then China believe they have to upgrade to maintain "balance". They don't want to do that. They do have a valid point. They also have some unwelcome ambitions in the region. It's a very messy situation, and the USA is not wearing a pure white hat.

MikeB4

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#1860697 8-Sep-2017 09:28

China has circa 260 Nuclear warheads which is 260 too many and is the same with Russia, Pakistan, UK, France, Israel, India, North Korea and the US.

Geektastic

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#1860804 8-Sep-2017 12:09

It matters not one iota whether we have them, or nuclear power, or do not have them.

If those that do have them were to use them, we're toast from fallout etc anyway.

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