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Devastation by stupidity
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  #1862411 11-Sep-2017 16:05
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Ultimately people should vote for whoever they feel comfortable with. If that is Jacinda Ardern for a majority, we will have a Labour government. If it is Bill English, we will be led by National. This is a democracy. Majority rules.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 




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  #1862433 11-Sep-2017 16:36
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http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11921058

 

The above Herald article reports that

 

"Clarke Gayford has waded into the political battlefield once again, in defence of his partner and her politics."

 

The Tax Working Group proposal is certainly becoming an important election issue and I don't think it would do Labour any harm to announce straight away a lot more detail about what new tax measures they may have in mind.

 

 


 
 
 
 




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  #1862441 11-Sep-2017 16:46
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gulfa:

 

Lets stop bashing Jacinda Ardern for her looks and personality, She has proven in all the debates that she holds her own with Bill English. Look Read and listen to the commentators after the debates They all agree that she has held her own or in many cases had the better of BE.

 

 

Political TV debates are fun to watch, but that's about all. If Jacinda had been debating with John Key, everyone would have said that John Key was a clear winner, even though he would have been talking about the same policies that Bill English has been promoting.

 

Shouting matches and clever debating don't add any substance to what are the best policies for running a country.

 

The more detail that can be provided about important matters, such as tax policy, is more important to me than a hyped-up TV debate!

 

 

 

 


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  #1862443 11-Sep-2017 16:56
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frednz:

 

Wiggum:

 

He is not the only one wanting to know these plans.

 

Winston always rocking the boat. But he does seem to be asking some intelligent questions.

 

 

 

 

I just wonder whether Winston may be pushing Labour too far on this one.

 

Could it have the potential to make some NZ First supporters switch over to the Greens who don't seem to mind a vague Labour tax policy?

 

 

Related to your comment, this is another take, from a very good political reporter. In short, he is attacking Labour, but to get National voters. He will protect you from the tax reform, inferring, they will win, he will join, and thanks for the National voters voting for me

 

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/09/patrick-gower-winston-s-tax-attack-shows-he-thinks-labour-is-winning.html

 

 


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  #1862447 11-Sep-2017 17:03
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MikeB4:

 

Tax should be based on the now and the future not the past. You have correctly written " huge issue for a lot of people" the working party will give the opportunity for many folk to make submissions instead of just being dished up a tax regime based on a voting majority in the house. Labour does have tax plans detailed already one just has to read their website but they are also looking forward and looking to what NZ wants. That's actually a good thing.

 

disclaimer; I have voted National in the last three elections.

 

 

So have I. Take out GST, take out Income Tax, and whats left are  a lot of smaller, targeted taxes. It would be positive to have at least a general direction, but if we assume there wont be 43 new taxes, and they are all up, its about a simpler tax regime. I would say that MANY have a concern but the polls show they have larger concerns aside from this. OR they feel its a reform, not a wholesale tax hike. 


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  #1862449 11-Sep-2017 17:05
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Wiggum:

 

Pumpedd:

 

Labour have had 9 years to work out a tax plan...like Winston I have also decided I want more info from Labour before I vote for them. Even their words around capital gains tax is vague and yet its a huge issue for a lot of people.

 

 

What I am finding frustrating is that every time Jacinda opens her mouth on the subject, I just get even more confused. Glad to find out its not just me.

 

 

Confused? Or concerned? The issue with the TWG hasn't changed as far as I am aware. Its not decided who will be on it, and post election we will know more about the reforms, and there will be consultation. Thats all Ive heard. Thats not confusing, its just very low detail.


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  #1862452 11-Sep-2017 17:11
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Pumpedd:

 


"Labour have had 9 years to work out a tax plan...like Winston I have also decided I want more info from Labour before I vote for them. Even their words around capital gains tax is vague and yet its a huge issue for a lot of people."

 

Please explain???

 

How can anyone work out a tax plan until they have the latest financial details which were only released a week  ago by Treasury?

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  #1862453 11-Sep-2017 17:13
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allio:

 

Pumpedd:

 

Labour have had 9 years to work out a tax plan...like Winston I have also decided I want more info from Labour before I vote for them. Even their words around capital gains tax is vague and yet its a huge issue for a lot of people.

 

 

Yeah, I bet you're really on the fence about voting for Labour.

 

For all those who are struggling with this issue (and there seem to be many), this is how I have interpreted Labour's position:

 

  • any tax reform is not aimed at raising revenue generally - it is aimed at rebalancing the tax system away from taxing income and towards taxing capital
  • within the broader group of "capital", the top priority is real estate, due to the housing crisis
  • the family home is exempt from any new taxes as owning a home to live in is something Kiwis aspire to and fulfils a valuable societal purpose
  • the first crack at rebalancing the system is extending the bright line test from two years to five
  • if that's not enough to make an appreciable dent in the housing crisis, they reserve the right to take expert advice on and implement other options
  • policies announced by Labour in previous years give the best guidance as to what those other options are likely to be - likely a more comprehensive CGT than the "bright line"
  • other options (like a land tax or financial transaction tax) are still on the table, so the working group has some options to discuss, but Labour has never given any kind of indication that they would favour these taxes

To me this approach is entirely sensible and I am perfectly happy to vote for it.

 

My personal prediction is that the combination of the bright line test 2.0, reduced immigration, stricter controls for landlords and banned foreign ownership, together with the natural end of the most recent boom cycle, will mean there are no house price increases for years to come. If that's the case I cannot imagine how or why Labour would introduce any new taxes at all. I would certainly prefer them to leave the option of doing so open, rather than irrevocably committing to it now. On the other hand - the best time to introduce a CGT is probably during the slow part of the cycle, before the next boom starts. Imagine how much revenue would have been raised if National had introduced a CGT in 2012. Probably could have paid off a few of the $90b they borrowed. Alas...

 

 

Nice post, detail wise. 

 

Not sure I agree that its that heavily  based around the housing crisis, although there will be reforms for exactly that. Taxes need to be simpler and fairer, and easier to collect and easier to administer.

 

Given interest rates will stay flat for a while, and other factors that can stem mass buying is a good idea. None will be a panacea but it all helps. If housing prices remained where they are, flat, as it is now, thats a gain.

 

Bills home grant, he needs to review. Dont increase it from 10k to 20k and 30k for a build. Leave the 10k as it is, and make it 40k for a new build. We want incentives to add stock, not attend auctions 


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  #1862455 11-Sep-2017 17:19
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darylblake:

 

Labour should have no trouble revealing how they intend to tax if they form a government. Having a committee after being elected is a horrifying idea. They have time to plan, and must do so.

 

Wether they keep taxes as they are, raise them or lower them. They absolutely must reveal their plan. It is NOT an unreasonable request at all.

 

Any political party could go and make tonnes of promises,

 

e.g. We will give everyone money towards a home, pay for their education, build Len Brown's Trainset and massive tunneling projects in the south island. We will increase social spending etc etc. 

But they must know where the money is going to come from. I am extremely concerned about about the general public being completely un-informed. And choosing to vote for a pretty face because she has made some nice promises.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is exactly what is happening. Both sides have a fiscal plan. Daily we get new policies. 

 

Tax info wise, I agree. But, is this a wholesale tax hikefest, or is it a reform of the tax structure? They are both quite different. I would expect and hope that it will be simpler, fairer, and cheaper by the Govt to administer, and that in itself is a huge cost. I could also see new taxes, taxed cancelled, some increased, some decreased, and that the overall tax take is give or take, similar. 


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  #1862458 11-Sep-2017 17:23
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Pumpedd:

 

Wiggum:

 

Pumpedd:

 

Labour have had 9 years to work out a tax plan...like Winston I have also decided I want more info from Labour before I vote for them. Even their words around capital gains tax is vague and yet its a huge issue for a lot of people.

 

 

What I am finding frustrating is that every time Jacinda opens her mouth on the subject, I just get even more confused. Glad to find out its not just me.

 

 

She is really all wind, but I probably will vote for her cause National have left huge gaps in how lower income people are going to fare. Labour havnt said much on this either especially definitive spending on health.

 

 

I thought she was big on Health?  Working class wise, they will miss out on the $1000 a year tax cut, but will benefit from other measures. As Bill said, and I have no reason to doubt him, his response was that lower income people without children will be worse off. The issue is that the better off dont need $20 a week, that can go back to the lower income people. Call that take from the rich and give to the poor, or iMO a better distribution of wealth. 


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  #1862533 11-Sep-2017 20:38
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gulfa:

 

Pumpedd:

 


"Labour have had 9 years to work out a tax plan...like Winston I have also decided I want more info from Labour before I vote for them. Even their words around capital gains tax is vague and yet its a huge issue for a lot of people."

 

Please explain???

 

How can anyone work out a tax plan until they have the latest financial details which were only released a week  ago by Treasury?

 

 

 

 

Get real man...election in 2 weeks and all Labour say is they are going to decide tax policy by a committee AFTER the election? Tax is a real issue for many many people and its quite disgraceful not to have a tax policy before the election. We know Labour have promised billions of dollars more election bribes than any other party and other than saying they are cancelling nationals tax cuts, we have to second guess the rest? Can we assume the rich will pay more? can we assume that a capital gains tax will come in? what else should we assume? single people are to pay more tax than people with children?...who knows. 

 

A change to NZ's taxation policy/system is a campaign issue!!!

 

IMO a capital gains tax is something a party should campaign on...like GST. 


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  #1862537 11-Sep-2017 20:47
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Pumpedd:

 

gulfa:

 

Pumpedd:

 


"Labour have had 9 years to work out a tax plan...like Winston I have also decided I want more info from Labour before I vote for them. Even their words around capital gains tax is vague and yet its a huge issue for a lot of people."

 

Please explain???

 

How can anyone work out a tax plan until they have the latest financial details which were only released a week  ago by Treasury?

 

 

 

 

Get real man...election in 2 weeks and all Labour say is they are going to decide tax policy by a committee AFTER the election? Tax is a real issue for many many people and its quite disgraceful not to have a tax policy before the election. We know Labour have promised billions of dollars more election bribes than any other party and other than saying they are cancelling nationals tax cuts, we have to second guess the rest? Can we assume the rich will pay more? can we assume that a capital gains tax will come in? what else should we assume? single people are to pay more tax than people with children?...who knows. 

 

A change to NZ's taxation policy/system is a campaign issue!!!

 

IMO a capital gains tax is something a party should campaign on...like GST. 

 

 

 

 

People complain loud and long about taxation do you not see the value in consultation to determine the best regime for the future? 





Mike
Change Management Consultant
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


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  #1862539 11-Sep-2017 20:50
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MikeB4:

 

Pumpedd:

 

gulfa:

 

Pumpedd:

 


"Labour have had 9 years to work out a tax plan...like Winston I have also decided I want more info from Labour before I vote for them. Even their words around capital gains tax is vague and yet its a huge issue for a lot of people."

 

Please explain???

 

How can anyone work out a tax plan until they have the latest financial details which were only released a week  ago by Treasury?

 

 

 

 

Get real man...election in 2 weeks and all Labour say is they are going to decide tax policy by a committee AFTER the election? Tax is a real issue for many many people and its quite disgraceful not to have a tax policy before the election. We know Labour have promised billions of dollars more election bribes than any other party and other than saying they are cancelling nationals tax cuts, we have to second guess the rest? Can we assume the rich will pay more? can we assume that a capital gains tax will come in? what else should we assume? single people are to pay more tax than people with children?...who knows. 

 

A change to NZ's taxation policy/system is a campaign issue!!!

 

IMO a capital gains tax is something a party should campaign on...like GST. 

 

 

 People complain loud and long about taxation do you not see the value in consultation to determine the best regime for the future? 

 

 

Yes I do, but they should have done this by now. How come Labour is the only party without a tax policy? It has nothing to do with opening of the books before election time.....what people want to see is the labours tax policy.

 

Every few hours Jacinda promises more ...that is un costed..like more plunket nurses. One that I am interested in is medicinal cannabis. All she said tho this question was an unreserved YES!!! We all know its way more complex than this. She is so short on details on almost all her promises its quite disturbing.


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  #1862540 11-Sep-2017 20:53
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Pumpedd:

 

MikeB4:

 

Pumpedd:

 

gulfa:

 

Pumpedd:

 


"Labour have had 9 years to work out a tax plan...like Winston I have also decided I want more info from Labour before I vote for them. Even their words around capital gains tax is vague and yet its a huge issue for a lot of people."

 

Please explain???

 

How can anyone work out a tax plan until they have the latest financial details which were only released a week  ago by Treasury?

 

 

 

 

Get real man...election in 2 weeks and all Labour say is they are going to decide tax policy by a committee AFTER the election? Tax is a real issue for many many people and its quite disgraceful not to have a tax policy before the election. We know Labour have promised billions of dollars more election bribes than any other party and other than saying they are cancelling nationals tax cuts, we have to second guess the rest? Can we assume the rich will pay more? can we assume that a capital gains tax will come in? what else should we assume? single people are to pay more tax than people with children?...who knows. 

 

A change to NZ's taxation policy/system is a campaign issue!!!

 

IMO a capital gains tax is something a party should campaign on...like GST. 

 

 

 

 

People complain loud and long about taxation do you not see the value in consultation to determine the best regime for the future? 

 

 

Yes I do, but they should have done this by now. How come Labour is the only party without a tax policy? It has nothing to do with opening of the books before election time.....what people want to see is the labours tax policy.

 

 

The reality is only a government can get folks off their butts and come and talk, an opposition party has no chance.





Mike
Change Management Consultant
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


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  #1862541 11-Sep-2017 20:57
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MikeB4:

 

Pumpedd:

 

MikeB4:

 

Pumpedd:

 

gulfa:

 

Pumpedd:

 


"Labour have had 9 years to work out a tax plan...like Winston I have also decided I want more info from Labour before I vote for them. Even their words around capital gains tax is vague and yet its a huge issue for a lot of people."

 

Please explain???

 

How can anyone work out a tax plan until they have the latest financial details which were only released a week  ago by Treasury?

 

 

 

 

Get real man...election in 2 weeks and all Labour say is they are going to decide tax policy by a committee AFTER the election? Tax is a real issue for many many people and its quite disgraceful not to have a tax policy before the election. We know Labour have promised billions of dollars more election bribes than any other party and other than saying they are cancelling nationals tax cuts, we have to second guess the rest? Can we assume the rich will pay more? can we assume that a capital gains tax will come in? what else should we assume? single people are to pay more tax than people with children?...who knows. 

 

A change to NZ's taxation policy/system is a campaign issue!!!

 

IMO a capital gains tax is something a party should campaign on...like GST. 

 

 

 

 

People complain loud and long about taxation do you not see the value in consultation to determine the best regime for the future? 

 

 

Yes I do, but they should have done this by now. How come Labour is the only party without a tax policy? It has nothing to do with opening of the books before election time.....what people want to see is the labours tax policy.

 

 

The reality is only a government can get folks off their butts and come and talk, an opposition party has no chance.

 

 

Her committee is an invited group of specialists to come together to formulate tax policy. This could have been done at any time.


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