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  Reply # 1871764 24-Sep-2017 00:11
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I would imagine that WP would find the idea of working with the Greens pretty difficult, He also had a lot to say on Labours other policies as well. I am just cringing to wander what National will have to give him to get into power.


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  Reply # 1871765 24-Sep-2017 00:27
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Aredwood: The party vote threshold should be reduced to 2%. That will make it far easier for the minor parties.

 

Screw the minor parties. 5% is heaps. Encouraging any more parties would make it more of a circus.


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1871767 24-Sep-2017 00:34
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If Winston goes with Labour and the Greens it for sure will be entertaining indeed. Jacinda just doesnt have the skills or experience to run a one majority circus, which it will be. If it goes this way we will have another election within 12 months.

 

I am sure if Winstons demands are crazy and over the top, Bill will be happy to let them go with Labour/Greens.

 

I believe we will see the beginning of a government with deeds of intent signed next week. Details will take a few more days. Winston won't want a repeat of what happened last time. The outcome of this election is no surprise and I am sure Winston knows what he wants already.


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  Reply # 1871770 24-Sep-2017 00:53
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Pumpedd:

If Winston goes with Labour and the Greens it for sure will be entertaining indeed. Jacinda just doesnt have the skills or experience to run a one majority circus, which it will be. If it goes this way we will have another election within 12 months.


I am sure if Winstons demands are crazy and over the top, Bill will be happy to let them go with Labour/Greens.


I believe we will see the beginning of a government with deeds of intent signed next week. Details will take a few more days. Winston won't want a repeat of what happened last time. The outcome of this election is no surprise and I am sure Winston knows what he wants already.



Another three years in his pension from Parliamentary Services...!





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  Reply # 1871771 24-Sep-2017 00:55
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MikeB4:

Geektastic:


MikeB4:


MMP gives more people a say in the outcome and the next 3 years will see the MP's held accountable. There will need to be considerable compromise and that's a good thing.



 


Giving people a say too much is part of why so little actually happens in NZ. They spend far too much time "consulting" and not enough time doing. A little more autocracy is required.


The MP's would be accountable regardless of MMP, of course, just as they were before MMP and are elsewhere where they still use FPP.



 


It's called democracy and I disagree with you about what happens in New Zealand we are young, small and vibrant country and way better than most of the old countries elsewhere. 



I think that depends on what you mean by better....





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  Reply # 1871772 24-Sep-2017 01:43
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MikeB4:
networkn:

 

MikeB4:

 

 

 

MMP gives more people a say in the outcome and the next 3 years will see the MP's held accountable. There will need to be considerable compromise and that's a good thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am not sure that's entirely right. I think you should have said.. "and that *could* be a good thing. 

 

 

 

Depending on what Winston demands, we could see a lot of NZ'rs get less than they were expecting/hoping for overall.

 

 

 

If National can also form with Greens then perhaps they might be able to pare back some of the inevitable ransom type demands made by WP.

 

 

 

I wonder what Maori party not getting in, will do to race relations in NZ?

 

 

 

 

 



I cannot see a National Green coalition. It is a shame Maori Party is out of Parliament, but again that is democracy and the electorates have spoken.

 

 

 

IMO if they really care about the environment and sticking to those core environment policies, then they would try to form a government with any party that has the potential to be in power, to bring in changes. Can NZ afford to go 3 more years without major changes to our environmental policies?

 

I suspect National would prefer to work with Greens , and totally cut out WP, but greens seem to have ruled that out due to their agreement with labour. But what ever the case, WP policies around immigration, reducing the retirement age back to 65, and making housing more affordable, fit with labour, so may result in a National coalition shifting a bit to the left, which isn't a bad thing, considering the countries vote has shifted slightly to the left.


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  Reply # 1871785 24-Sep-2017 07:44
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So now we left with Wnston (who did not even win his own seat), with only 7% of the party vote, getting to chose the government for NZ. How on earth is that democratic? It stinks to say the least.

 

Not much we can really do, I think the National vote has turned out to be good. I was beginning to loose a lot of faith in NZ. What now? Well I hate to say it, but we need to give Winston whatever he wants and keep Labour/Greens our of Goverment at all costs. It seems MMP has caused us to slide backwards in our democracy.


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  Reply # 1871802 24-Sep-2017 08:20
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Wiggum:

So now we left with Wnston (who did not even win his own seat), with only 7% of the party vote, getting to chose the government for NZ. How on earth is that democratic? It stinks to say the least.


Not much we can really do, I think the National vote has turned out to be good. I was beginning to loose a lot of faith in NZ. What now? Well I hate to say it, but we need to give Winston whatever he wants and keep Labour/Greens our of Goverment at all costs. It seems MMP has caused us to slide backwards in our democracy.



Winston Peters did win his seat in Parliament, he won it by leading his party to the third highest voting count. It does not matter if the seat is an electorate seat or list seat. This is MMP, this is democracy.




Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1871808 24-Sep-2017 08:38
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Wiggum:

 

So now we left with Wnston (who did not even win his own seat), with only 7% of the party vote, getting to chose the government for NZ. How on earth is that democratic? It stinks to say the least.

 

Not much we can really do, I think the National vote has turned out to be good. I was beginning to loose a lot of faith in NZ. What now? Well I hate to say it, but we need to give Winston whatever he wants and keep Labour/Greens our of Goverment at all costs. It seems MMP has caused us to slide backwards in our democracy.

 

 

Its democratic because the ruling coalition will have a majority. And National or Labour will be on board , whichever wins. And voters for NZF as well as everyone else knows that if he had the balance of power, that will be exercised. There were no secrets ket form voters, we all knew the potential.

 

If a arty won on its own right, they can do whatever they like, with whoever they like whenever they like. Coalitions dilute matters a degree, so you end up with less radical changes, thats not a bad thing. 

 

If comments on the outcome are based solely in self interest, then its not much of a discussion. Better to sit on the fence and discuss the possible outcomes rather than you preferred outcome and why everything else is wrong. 


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  Reply # 1871811 24-Sep-2017 08:42
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The morning after it still think the final outcome is 50/50. We won’t know for at least here weeks.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1871814 24-Sep-2017 08:50
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So, which way will he go? There are reasons why he could go National, could go Labour, or would not go National or would now go Labour.

 

Here are my on the fence thoughts.

 

Go with Natiional

 

He was a National MP so his core values sit more blue. 

 

 

 

Go with Labour.

 

There are policies that fit both. Greens have offered an olive branch, naming 4 policies that fit, and acknowledging that there are other issues that dont fit. I can see more cooperation, more so, less agro that he would have with Labour/Greens. He supported Davis in his first election. He gets on very well with David Parker.

 

 

 

Not go with National

 

He cannot stand Joyce or Bennett. I feel there is less policy fit with National. 

 

 

 

Not got with Labour

 

Greens. But I still see that as less an issue right now. 

 

 

 

IMHO, I can see dramas with him and National, bad blood. While it was commented on that as he is much older tham JA, and old fashioned, he might struggle with a female 37yo. Or he gets respect from her, a real voice, and he in fact adds depth. He was a good deputy PM and a good foreign affairs minister, and as someone said last night, you cant doubt his commitment to NZ

 

I can see either an unhappy family, or a "ok, we are in, lets all grow up and get on with it" Thats my feel

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1871815 24-Sep-2017 08:53
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I see the barrier to a Labour NZF Green coalition is the Green Party. I cannot see NZF working or working for long with the Green Party. A coalition would be better for NZ if there is a green involvement but it may not happen.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1871816 24-Sep-2017 08:55
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MikeB4: The morning after it still think the final outcome is 50/50. We won’t know for at least here weeks.

 

Peters said he wants time. Bill seems to take that as a couple of days. Or thats what I felt from his speech, I could be wrong. I dont see this taking weeks. I see Peters meeting with his caucus, and then setting up meetings with Bill and JA. I dont see these meetings as days and days and days. What can each bring to the table compromise wise? Its not hard to imagine that in 30 minutes, its either, "ok, well thats a start, lets keep talking" or "come on, WTF"

 

As others have implied or stated, I dint see this as him wringing every cent and policy out of Bill or JA, he isn't a ratbag. 


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  Reply # 1871817 24-Sep-2017 09:03
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MikeB4: I see the barrier to a Labour NZF Green coalition is the Green Party. I cannot see NZF working or working for long with the Green Party. A coalition would be better for NZ if there is a green involvement but it may not happen.

 

They do clash, they do compete, but thats the case for all parties. The difference is, today its different. They all have an opportunity to govern. 

 

Lets work together and make a go of this VS lets oppose and lose every parliamentary vote for the nest three years. Thats is quite a carrot.

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1871818 24-Sep-2017 09:11
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Just read a couple of articles on Stuff. That it is a formality to go with National. 


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