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BDFL - Memuneh
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  Reply # 1872266 25-Sep-2017 08:31
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I think lots of people complain about the MMP when the results don't go their way. If another system is in place all will be well - until the results don't go their way.





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  Reply # 1872267 25-Sep-2017 08:32
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I really don't like Winston. Its really painful to listen to his nonsense. 

 

He is one of those career MP's that has not really achieved a lot in the scheme of things. But seems to always "sit on the fence" after every few elections and decides how it is going to go. This takes a lot away from MMP.

 

It was only a week or two ago, he gate crashed a farming get together and tried to turn it into a political stunt for him. Really cheesed off a lot of people.

 

As mad as I think Gareth Morgan is, I am a little bit disappointed. I didn't vote for him because well, half of his policies were insane, (like just giving money to a selected group of people). But the other half had some real research and merit behind them. The guy didn't stand a chance of getting 5% of the vote. But since politics is a popularity contest, he could have paid a popular likeable celebrity to stand in a seat that they would be likely to win, and get a few MP's in that way. 

 

Anyway NZ put us in this terrible situation again. Where the few decide the way its going to go. Its going to slow progress significantly. 

 

Also Winston will demand to be PM from Jacinda. Bill will offer him deputy PM. He is in the twilight of his career, and there is no way he is gonna get another chance at getting a top job.






 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1872268 25-Sep-2017 08:32
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MikeB4: Just because the vote went a certain way does not make the vote wrong or the choices wrong, I guess tuntrums and breath holding while demanding the system should be changed was inevitable.

 

In a way I agree. But I can't help blaming labour for all this, good that their popularity has soared, but the biggest casualty is the Maori party, and its loss now means we are in this predicament. I really got to wonder if those Maori Party voters are now regretting their vote for Labour.


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  Reply # 1872269 25-Sep-2017 08:33
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Wiggum:

 

MikeB4:

You are right we should have the choice and we do have the choice and we have made the choice.

 

Say that again? Who exactly is this "we" you are referring to, the 7% of voters that voted NZFirst?

 

People who voted National/Labour/Greens certainly did not make this choice or have this choice. Perhaps you can highlight what an outright majority of New Zealanders could have done to prevent it?

 

The MMP system as it is is skewed, Because ultimately Winston will probably be deputy PM, nobody besides 7% of the voters put him there. Its even more skewed when you think that he can possibly be PM, and most likely will be acting PM on the odd occasion if English is not available (again the vast majority of Kiwis will disapprove). We all knew this 3 years ago when we voted ion the referendum to retain or drop mmp, unfortunately many New Zealanders did not really understand the system. Hopefully now many people will realize its power, and in the next MMP referendum (if we ever have another), we get rid of it and scrap this stupid system.

 

All that aside, I think a NZ First / National government can work pretty well. I agree with Winstons stance on immigration and the Maori seats, toughening up on hard core crimes, deporting non NZ citizen criminals etc. Not sure though if he will get his way. But one thing is sure, he has the ability to call a lot of shots. I recon a Winston/National government will untimely push government further to the right, and people who have complained about the National government of the past will soon be longing for the good days under just national/Maori/Act.

 

The next few weeks should be interesting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So you dont like a situation where 7% put him there? What about the % that put Maori/Act there?

 

The polls made it very clear that he could be a kingmaker, so there is no secret there, nor that National or Labour would be in negotiations with him. All known before polling day, no surprises

 

Id prefer Peters in a National coalition than National by themselves, no question. I also feel he would work better in a Labour/Greens coalition. Peters, Joyce and Bennett will be a circus. At least Labour/Greens/NZF will work together

 

The next few weeks wont be interesting as there is nothing to see, until Oct 12


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  Reply # 1872270 25-Sep-2017 08:36
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Wiggum:

 

MikeB4: Just because the vote went a certain way does not make the vote wrong or the choices wrong, I guess tuntrums and breath holding while demanding the system should be changed was inevitable.

 

In a way I agree. But I can't help blaming labour for all this, good that their popularity has soared, but the biggest casualty is the Maori party, and its loss now means we are in this predicament. I really got to wonder if those Maori Party voters are now regretting their vote for Labour.

 

 

??? Your complaining about NZF, a small party with seats, and also supporting Maori, a small party with seats? Refer to MF's post above


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  Reply # 1872272 25-Sep-2017 08:42
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

Id prefer Peters in a National coalition than National by themselves, no question. I also feel he would work better in a Labour/Greens coalition. Peters, Joyce and Bennett will be a circus. At least Labour/Greens/NZF will work together

 

The next few weeks wont be interesting as there is nothing to see, until Oct 12

 

 

Are you really serious? Have you had a look at Winston's policies?

 

http://www.nzfirst.org.nz/policies


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  Reply # 1872273 25-Sep-2017 08:44
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Wiggum:

MikeB4: Just because the vote went a certain way does not make the vote wrong or the choices wrong, I guess tuntrums and breath holding while demanding the system should be changed was inevitable.


In a way I agree. But I can't help blaming labour for all this, good that their popularity has soared, but the biggest casualty is the Maori party, and its loss now means we are in this predicament. I really got to wonder if those Maori Party voters are now regretting their vote for Labour.



Why would they regret their vote.?




Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1872274 25-Sep-2017 08:46
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tdgeek:

 

Wiggum:

 

MikeB4: Just because the vote went a certain way does not make the vote wrong or the choices wrong, I guess tuntrums and breath holding while demanding the system should be changed was inevitable.

 

In a way I agree. But I can't help blaming labour for all this, good that their popularity has soared, but the biggest casualty is the Maori party, and its loss now means we are in this predicament. I really got to wonder if those Maori Party voters are now regretting their vote for Labour.

 

 

??? Your complaining about NZF, a small party with seats, and also supporting Maori, a small party with seats? Refer to MF's post above

 

 

Now that you put it that way I agree.


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  Reply # 1872276 25-Sep-2017 08:48
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MikeB4:
Wiggum:

 

MikeB4: Just because the vote went a certain way does not make the vote wrong or the choices wrong, I guess tuntrums and breath holding while demanding the system should be changed was inevitable.

 

 

 

In a way I agree. But I can't help blaming labour for all this, good that their popularity has soared, but the biggest casualty is the Maori party, and its loss now means we are in this predicament. I really got to wonder if those Maori Party voters are now regretting their vote for Labour.

 



Why would they regret their vote.?

 

Its clear national just needed one more seat to form a government. If Maori voters stuck with the Maori party, and did not vote for labour they would still have representation in government.

 

* Assuming here that Government will be a National/NZ First coalition.


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  Reply # 1872278 25-Sep-2017 08:49
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Wiggum:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

Id prefer Peters in a National coalition than National by themselves, no question. I also feel he would work better in a Labour/Greens coalition. Peters, Joyce and Bennett will be a circus. At least Labour/Greens/NZF will work together

 

The next few weeks wont be interesting as there is nothing to see, until Oct 12

 

 

Are you really serious? Have you had a look at Winston's policies?

 

http://www.nzfirst.org.nz/policies

 

 

Quite serious. As you know, he wont get all of his policies in. Have you seen Nationals policies? Bank the money, get surplus, let many things slide. Im a National voter, I'm not happy with that either. They need a kick up the jacksee, someone to keep them honest, Peters fits that bill. However, he would be better off with Labour and avoid the in fighting that will occur with Bennett and Joyce


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  Reply # 1872279 25-Sep-2017 08:52
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Wiggum:

 

MikeB4:
Wiggum:

 

MikeB4: Just because the vote went a certain way does not make the vote wrong or the choices wrong, I guess tuntrums and breath holding while demanding the system should be changed was inevitable.

 

 

 

In a way I agree. But I can't help blaming labour for all this, good that their popularity has soared, but the biggest casualty is the Maori party, and its loss now means we are in this predicament. I really got to wonder if those Maori Party voters are now regretting their vote for Labour.

 



Why would they regret their vote.?

 

Its clear national just needed one more seat to form a government. If Maori voters stuck with the Maori party, and did not vote for labour they would still have representation in government.

 

* Assuming here that Government will be a National/NZ First coalition.

 

 

The election is over, the people have decided, you cant revisit the polls. There were  a few seats where Lab/Greens combined easily out voted the National candidate, but the vote was split. Maybe lets revisit those and get them re voted on? Its Sept 25th, not 23rd now

 

 


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  Reply # 1872280 25-Sep-2017 08:55
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Wiggum:

 

MikeB4:
Wiggum:

 

 

 

MikeB4: Just because the vote went a certain way does not make the vote wrong or the choices wrong, I guess tuntrums and breath holding while demanding the system should be changed was inevitable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In a way I agree. But I can't help blaming labour for all this, good that their popularity has soared, but the biggest casualty is the Maori party, and its loss now means we are in this predicament. I really got to wonder if those Maori Party voters are now regretting their vote for Labour.

 

 

 



Why would they regret their vote.?

 

 

 

Its clear national just needed one more seat to form a government. If Maori voters stuck with the Maori party, and did not vote for labour they would still have representation in government.

 

 

 

* Assuming here that Government will be a National/NZ First coalition.

 



given that the Maori seats are all Labour that would suggest that they knew precisely how they were voting and why wouldn't they?.





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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1872290 25-Sep-2017 09:29
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There is an electoral reason fro suggest to NZF to go in coalition with Labour, as of election night for more people did not vote for Nation than voted for them therefore this could be seen that the voter choice is not for a National lead government.





Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1872295 25-Sep-2017 09:43
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The Financial Times began it's article on the election with "New Zealand's next government will be decided behind closed doors..."

 

Which I think reasonably encapsulates my objection to the current system. It just does not quite pass the sniff test for me.

 

The Germans are likely to be having the same sort of thing now from what I read this morning, with coalition talks taking "months". Hopefully ours won't!

 

There's an interesting map here showing the electorate seats and whether they are blue or red. Without the urban seats, Labour would have very few indeed!






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  Reply # 1872296 25-Sep-2017 09:44
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MikeB4:

 

There is an electoral reason fro suggest to NZF to go in coalition with Labour, as of election night for more people did not vote for Nation than voted for them therefore this could be seen that the voter choice is not for a National lead government.

 

 

 

 

Conversely, National's largest share of the votes could be seen to indicate more people want them involved in government.






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