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  Reply # 1872346 25-Sep-2017 11:09
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Fred99:

 

 

 

I guess my point there is that in the past, turnout was in the 90s, it was seen to be an important thing to do if you valued democracy.

 

 

 

Mostly low turnout dilutes claims for "consensus" - if only 80% vote and only a 50% majority is attained (a vote by 40% of electors), then claiming that there's "consensus" is spurious and divisive.  That may be "how it works", but it's less than ideal.

 

 

How much do you think immigration has to do with the lower turnout? Saturday night whilst waiting for my takeaways I was sitting with an Indian couple, discussing the election. I asked them if they voted, and they said they were entitled to as they had citizenship recently, however they opted not too as they didn't feel they had enough information. 

 

 

 

To have a real understanding of each parties policies to a degree that qualifies you to vote, IMO you need to set aside at least 4-5 hours to properly read through things. 

 

 


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  Reply # 1872354 25-Sep-2017 11:25
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networkn:

 

Fred99:

 

 

 

I guess my point there is that in the past, turnout was in the 90s, it was seen to be an important thing to do if you valued democracy.

 

 

 

Mostly low turnout dilutes claims for "consensus" - if only 80% vote and only a 50% majority is attained (a vote by 40% of electors), then claiming that there's "consensus" is spurious and divisive.  That may be "how it works", but it's less than ideal.

 

 

How much do you think immigration has to do with the lower turnout? Saturday night whilst waiting for my takeaways I was sitting with an Indian couple, discussing the election. I asked them if they voted, and they said they were entitled to as they had citizenship recently, however they opted not too as they didn't feel they had enough information. 

 

 

 

To have a real understanding of each parties policies to a degree that qualifies you to vote, IMO you need to set aside at least 4-5 hours to properly read through things. 

 

 

 

 

I get the feeling that some embrace democracy as a huge privilege - and the society that results one of the reasons why they chose to come and live here.

 

I think the main problem is with the 18-30 demographic - regardless of culture or birthplace.  Why - I'm not sure. My only anecdotal experience is with my son and his friends in that demographic, they were quite passionate about voting and encouraging their peers to vote, but I probably egg them on a bit.

 

(and edit to add - not to advise them who to vote for, but to think and take interest, and make their own informed decisions.  I do remind them that to not vote is to let old and relatively wealthy white people like me rule their lives - so if they're happy with that - then don't bother voting)


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  Reply # 1872385 25-Sep-2017 12:03
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MikeB4:

voting is not easy for some in the voting station I went to all the booths suited people who are standing.

 

I think voting was confusing for some. For instance early voting opened in our local mall, and was there every day since early voted started.

 

But on official voting day, it was at official stations only, and not in the mall.


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  Reply # 1872410 25-Sep-2017 12:22
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Wiggum:

MikeB4:

voting is not easy for some in the voting station I went to all the booths suited people who are standing.


I think voting was confusing for some. For instance early voting opened in our local mall, and was there every day since early voted started.


But on official voting day, it was at official stations only, and not in the mall.



All booths are official and there were booths in Malls. Queensgate Hutt City had booths.




Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1872420 25-Sep-2017 12:38
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MikeB4:
Wiggum:

 

MikeB4:

voting is not easy for some in the voting station I went to all the booths suited people who are standing.

 

 

 

I think voting was confusing for some. For instance early voting opened in our local mall, and was there every day since early voted started.

 

 

 

But on official voting day, it was at official stations only, and not in the mall.

 



All booths are official and there were booths in Malls. Queensgate Hutt City had booths.

 

Were they there voting day?


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  Reply # 1872430 25-Sep-2017 12:55
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Someone posted a link a few pages back to NZF's policies, I didnt read them all, but I have to be honest, many of them actually made sense -

 

- Take fuel tax and other roading tax out of the kitty and apply it to roading issues, don't rob Peter to pay Paul.

 

- Electric rail to the airport - logistically difficult, but delaying it is only going to add cost to the process for something that may very well be inevitable.

 

- Teaching kids to drive as part of basic life skills in school, far rather money spent on that than Te Reo

 

 

 

That was just a sampling. I am sure there are some in there that are completely bonkers, but are unlikely to be part of the negotiating package anyway.

 

Does NZ First get such a bad rap because of Winston? (much like the Greens getting a bad rap because of Meteria?)

 

 


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  Reply # 1872433 25-Sep-2017 13:00
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Wiggum:

 

MikeB4:
Wiggum:

 

MikeB4:

voting is not easy for some in the voting station I went to all the booths suited people who are standing.

 

 

 

I think voting was confusing for some. For instance early voting opened in our local mall, and was there every day since early voted started.

 

 

 

But on official voting day, it was at official stations only, and not in the mall.

 



All booths are official and there were booths in Malls. Queensgate Hutt City had booths.

 

Were they there voting day?

 

 

 

 

Yep they were  but I didn't vote there as I voted early. 





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


gzt

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  Reply # 1872491 25-Sep-2017 15:08
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Unlike 2014, Harawira's feed the kids bill would pass with today's projected composition of parliament. That's something to think about.

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  Reply # 1872575 25-Sep-2017 16:07
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sen8or:

 

Someone posted a link a few pages back to NZF's policies, I didnt read them all, but I have to be honest, many of them actually made sense -

 

- Take fuel tax and other roading tax out of the kitty and apply it to roading issues, don't rob Peter to pay Paul.

 

- Electric rail to the airport - logistically difficult, but delaying it is only going to add cost to the process for something that may very well be inevitable.

 

- Teaching kids to drive as part of basic life skills in school, far rather money spent on that than Te Reo

 

 

 

That was just a sampling. I am sure there are some in there that are completely bonkers, but are unlikely to be part of the negotiating package anyway.

 

Does NZ First get such a bad rap because of Winston? (much like the Greens getting a bad rap because of Meteria?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think he wants a referendum on the Maori seats, however hinted that is not a bottom line and would be one of the first jettisoned during negotiations.

 

NZ First usually gets a bad rap because of some of the absolutely bonkers things their junior MPs have said to the media over the years.


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  Reply # 1872791 26-Sep-2017 00:01
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Pumpedd:

 

Aredwood: The party vote threshold should be reduced to 2%. That will make it far easier for the minor parties.

 

Screw the minor parties. 5% is heaps. Encouraging any more parties would make it more of a circus.

 

 

There has never been a political party that has been able to start from nothing, and then get into parliament by meeting the 5% threshold. (At least since MMP came in). All of the current minor parties (ones that are or have previously been parliament) are the result of splinter groups and mergers from existing parties that date back to the FPP days.

 

Also if a minor party gets between 3-5% of the vote, it causes a high amount of wasted vote. Which has the effect of lifting support of the major parties the most. How many people who voted for TOP or the Maori party this election, would be happy that they have indirectly given extra support mostly to National? - as that is what they have done.

 

And if a minor party wins an electorate, and gets say 2% of the party vote - they bring in 2 MPs. While another minor party that gets more than double the number of party votes 4.9%, but doesn't win an electorate - brings in 0 MPs. But get 5.9% like the Green party did - and you bring in 7 MPs. No way is that democratic, as the number of MPs should closely follow the number of party votes.

 

And in elections like the one that just happened - where the left and right bloc's are polling really close together. Instead of people voting for a minor party - they vote National or Labour/Greens. As imagine that you support TOP, Conservative, Legalise Cannabis party, or another tiny party, But you also really hate National. You will then vote Labour/Greens to keep National out. Same scenario but you really hate Labour/Greens instead - You will instead vote National.

 

Now imagine if we had say 4 different minor parties in Parliament, But each of them only has 1 or 2 seats. National or Labour would then only need to form a minority government based on a confidence / supply arrangement. When Nat/Lab wants to pass some new laws - there will be plenty of minor parties to choose from to get the numbers to pass it. And no 1 minor party would be able to hold the whole country to ransom like what is now happening. And with lots of minor parties vying to be part of the next government - they would be alot more willing to compromise. As Nat/Lab would have alot more choice in who to do a deal with.

 

If nothing is changed - we will end up like the USA. Where your only real choice with voting if you are lucky is red or blue. Unless we manage to get National and Labour forming a grand coalition (Like is common in Germany). But pigs will not only be flying - but flying to Mars before National and Labour form a coalition together.

 

Now if Nat/Lab actually did form a coalition, then the 5% threshold would make sense.






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  Reply # 1872816 26-Sep-2017 00:36
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sen8or:

 

Someone posted a link a few pages back to NZF's policies, I didnt read them all, but I have to be honest, many of them actually made sense -

 

- Take fuel tax and other roading tax out of the kitty and apply it to roading issues, don't rob Peter to pay Paul.

 

- Electric rail to the airport - logistically difficult, but delaying it is only going to add cost to the process for something that may very well be inevitable.

 

- Teaching kids to drive as part of basic life skills in school, far rather money spent on that than Te Reo

 

 

 

That was just a sampling. I am sure there are some in there that are completely bonkers, but are unlikely to be part of the negotiating package anyway.

 

Does NZ First get such a bad rap because of Winston? (much like the Greens getting a bad rap because of Meteria?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would not have regarded any of them as bonkers really. Some of them seem a bit shortsighted and a few lean a bit leftward for my taste but nothing is exactly bonkers.






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  Reply # 1872817 26-Sep-2017 00:37
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Wiggum:

 

MikeB4:

voting is not easy for some in the voting station I went to all the booths suited people who are standing.

 

I think voting was confusing for some. For instance early voting opened in our local mall, and was there every day since early voted started.

 

But on official voting day, it was at official stations only, and not in the mall.

 

 

 

 

To be honest, if people find voting confusing, they probably shouldn't be doing it...!






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