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17518 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1880189 10-Oct-2017 08:52
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tdgeek:

 

Batman:

 

Confidence means - if there is a vote of no confidence in the PM-ship they will vote for confidence. Ie prevent any motion of no confidence nonsense.

 

 

Ok, so they stand by the Govt. What about when say there are 5 bills to be voted on, does this confidence extend to supporting those?

 

 

That's not confidence thgat's supply of votes.

 

These are usually pre negotiated on what they will supply what they will abstain and what they will oppose, and all signed on the dotted lines so they both know where they stabnd. So the answer is depends on what's signed.


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1880197 10-Oct-2017 09:02
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tdgeek:

 

Batman:

 

Confidence means - if there is a vote of no confidence in the PM-ship they will vote for confidence. Ie prevent any motion of no confidence nonsense.

 

 

Ok, so they stand by the Govt. What about when say there are 5 bills to be voted on, does this confidence extend to supporting those?

 

 

 

 

Confidence and supply means support for money supply related votes, e.g passing the budget. Confidence is a vote in the confidence of the government/prime minister. If a PM loses a confidence vote they are toast. I think they can also name a vote a confidence issue to force a key piece of legislation through, but this is risky as if they lose they are gone. If a confidence vote fails then the house can put through another motion for confidence in a new government under a new leader. E.G Bolger gets rolled and Shipley installed as new PM. This would see a very intense period as various factions vie to get the numbers to install their person as PM. If they are unable to form a new government with confidence of the house the GG can dissolve parliament and call a new election.


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1880199 10-Oct-2017 09:03
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Batman:

 

tdgeek:

 

Batman:

 

Confidence means - if there is a vote of no confidence in the PM-ship they will vote for confidence. Ie prevent any motion of no confidence nonsense.

 

 

Ok, so they stand by the Govt. What about when say there are 5 bills to be voted on, does this confidence extend to supporting those?

 

 

That's not confidence thgat's supply of votes.

 

These are usually pre negotiated on what they will supply what they will abstain and what they will oppose, and all signed on the dotted lines so they both know where they stabnd. So the answer is depends on what's signed.

 

 

Ok, so there lies the difference between a coalition and cross benches. If he went cross bench, he can support Nats or Labs as and when needed. Minority Govt, so I take that as being democratic as each party is represented by their popular vote, which they can exercise when bills are voted on, thereby taking away the undemocratic view by some here re MMP 


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  Reply # 1880207 10-Oct-2017 09:13
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Varkk:

 

tdgeek:

 

Batman:

 

Confidence means - if there is a vote of no confidence in the PM-ship they will vote for confidence. Ie prevent any motion of no confidence nonsense.

 

 

Ok, so they stand by the Govt. What about when say there are 5 bills to be voted on, does this confidence extend to supporting those?

 

 

 

 

Confidence and supply means support for money supply related votes, e.g passing the budget. Confidence is a vote in the confidence of the government/prime minister. If a PM loses a confidence vote they are toast. I think they can also name a vote a confidence issue to force a key piece of legislation through, but this is risky as if they lose they are gone. If a confidence vote fails then the house can put through another motion for confidence in a new government under a new leader. E.G Bolger gets rolled and Shipley installed as new PM. This would see a very intense period as various factions vie to get the numbers to install their person as PM. If they are unable to form a new government with confidence of the house the GG can dissolve parliament and call a new election.

 

 

What I bolded, is that a situation where a lack of confidence is raised by someone, so they vote on it, or does that also include where National puts in a bill, and it fails to pass, as Peters and Labour and Greens vote against it?


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1880230 10-Oct-2017 09:46
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tdgeek:

 

Batman:

 

Confidence means - if there is a vote of no confidence in the PM-ship they will vote for confidence. Ie prevent any motion of no confidence nonsense.

 

 

Ok, so they stand by the Govt. What about when say there are 5 bills to be voted on, does this confidence extend to supporting those?

 

 

Here is a fairly good article explaining "confidence and supply" as it relates to NZ. The reason I suspect this may Winston's approach is because he made a public promise the day after the election for a quick resolution. Coalition talks normally go on for weeks. He indicated that the talks will be brief.


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  Reply # 1880233 10-Oct-2017 09:51
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David Seymour says that Winston wants to be PM and Labour will give it to him ... 


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1880234 10-Oct-2017 09:52
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Geektastic:

 

tdgeek:

 

Geektastic:

 

Rodney Hide's article in the Herald about MMP encapsulated the present position well, I thought.

 

 

What alternative do you suggest? When the largest party recieves 44% of the vote. And the second largest bloc recieves about 1 percent less?

 

 

 

 

I think that there are other versions of PR that would work better for us.

 

We need to avoid situations like the present one, where the election is largely pointless - we may as well have just phoned the party in question and asked them to pick the government.

 

I would suggest some sort of amendment whereby the party with the largest vote share gets automatic first go in negotiating.

 

 

LOL - it was far from pointless. For example, parties which supported the last minority government have been voted out by the electorate. That means they are not sitting down this week to get their policies on the table for the next 3 years.

 

NZF did not figure in last election's talks so everything has changed.

 

You don't have to worry if there's a L / G / NZF government. The electricity will still work and they won't take away your house :-)


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1880236 10-Oct-2017 09:57
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

What I bolded, is that a situation where a lack of confidence is raised by someone, so they vote on it, or does that also include where National puts in a bill, and it fails to pass, as Peters and Labour and Greens vote against it?

 

 

I think any member can raise a motion of no-confidence. However it can also be triggered by the PM/Government attached to a bill they feel is important to pass. I think in the last term it was raised as a possibility a couple of times when National was looking short on numbers for a few bills to force either Peter Dunne or the Maori Party to support the bill. It places the onus on the support party to either support the bill they oppose or potentially bring down the government.

 

 


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  Reply # 1880237 10-Oct-2017 10:00
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DaveB:

 

tdgeek:

 

Batman:

 

Confidence means - if there is a vote of no confidence in the PM-ship they will vote for confidence. Ie prevent any motion of no confidence nonsense.

 

 

Ok, so they stand by the Govt. What about when say there are 5 bills to be voted on, does this confidence extend to supporting those?

 

 

Here is a fairly good article explaining "confidence and supply" as it relates to NZ. The reason I suspect this may Winston's approach is because he made a public promise the day after the election for a quick resolution. Coalition talks normally go on for weeks. He indicated that the talks will be brief.

 

 

Although he also said he has 9 options, and time to form a coalition by the 12th. Cross bench would appeal more perhaps to Joe Average, and remove the undemocratic comments as "I did not vote for NZF" It reduces Nationals strength, adds to Labours strength, and gives NZF free access to support or oppose Nats or Labour bills, except where agreed. One could argue its fair, as Nats have barely over 1% more popular vote support than the Labour bloc, so they have no mandate.


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  Reply # 1880238 10-Oct-2017 10:01
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Batman:

 

David Seymour says that Winston wants to be PM and Labour will give it to him ... 

 

 

Seymour is in the political wilderness and is trying hard to remain relevant. This is probably his last term in Parliament and he knows it. 





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1880240 10-Oct-2017 10:02
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Batman:

 

David Seymour says that Winston wants to be PM and Labour will give it to him ... 

 

 

He is stupid. Just getting his face in the news so its not forgotten. Same next week


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  Reply # 1880243 10-Oct-2017 10:04
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MikeB4:

 

Batman:

 

David Seymour says that Winston wants to be PM and Labour will give it to him ... 

 

 

Seymour is in the political wilderness and is trying hard to remain relevant. This is probably his last term in Parliament and he knows it. 

 

 

Can he say, "become" a national candidate next time round and take epsom as he has?


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  Reply # 1880248 10-Oct-2017 10:22
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Batman:

 

MikeB4:

 

Batman:

 

David Seymour says that Winston wants to be PM and Labour will give it to him ... 

 

 

Seymour is in the political wilderness and is trying hard to remain relevant. This is probably his last term in Parliament and he knows it. 

 

 

Can he say, "become" a national candidate next time round and take epsom as he has?

 

 

He could if National wanted him. 





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1880360 10-Oct-2017 14:35
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this sounds very sensible, not sure how doable though.

 

but then those who have been around long enough might already have biases with mr prebble


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  Reply # 1880368 10-Oct-2017 14:42
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Batman:

 

this sounds very sensible, not sure how doable though.

 

but then those who have been around long enough might already have biases with mr prebble

 

 

He should stick to retirement


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