What will Winston do???

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#1881777 11-Oct-2017 10:03

tdgeek:

Pumpedd:

Batman:

and on the verge of becoming Labour PM!

He will NEVER become a Labour MP.

Correct, both parties have stated more than once that PM and Finance Minister is not up for grabs. Aside from any layperson also seeing that is bizarre, for Seymour to grab a headline, shows he is not relevant anymore. If he ever was.

Only way he can become a LAbour MP is to join the Labour party. He can be a coalition Minister or w/e but he still wouldnt be a Labour MP.

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MikeB4

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#1881779 11-Oct-2017 10:04

tdgeek:

Pumpedd:

Batman:

and on the verge of becoming Labour PM!

He will NEVER become a Labour MP.

Correct, both parties have stated more than once that PM and Finance Minister is not up for grabs. Aside from any layperson also seeing that is bizarre, for Seymour to grab a headline, shows he is not relevant anymore. If he ever was.

except in politics yes means no. no means maybe, never means it will be a little longer. If they do change they will, to put it simply, certain informal discussions took place, involving a full and frank exchange of views, out of which there arose a series of proposals which on examination proved to indicate certain promising lines of enquiry which when pursued led to the realization that the alternative courses of action might in fact, in certain circumstances, be susceptible of discreet modification, leading to a reappraisal of the original areas of difference and pointing the way to encouraging possibilities of compromise and cooperation which if bilaterally implemented with appropriate give and take on both sides might if the climate were right have a reasonable possibility at the end of the day of leading, rightly or wrongly, to a mutually satisfactory resolution.

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#1881831 11-Oct-2017 11:13

Pumpedd:

tdgeek:

Pumpedd:

Batman:

and on the verge of becoming Labour PM!

He will NEVER become a Labour MP.

Correct, both parties have stated more than once that PM and Finance Minister is not up for grabs. Aside from any layperson also seeing that is bizarre, for Seymour to grab a headline, shows he is not relevant anymore. If he ever was.

Only way he can become a LAbour MP is to join the Labour party. He can be a coalition Minister or w/e but he still wouldnt be a Labour MP.

Not sure why this goes on but no one said he'd be a labour MP

tdgeek

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#1881869 11-Oct-2017 11:39

So, while all the talk is Nats or Labour, there are other permutations. Nats/Labour, not really, Nats/Greens, well Bill hasnt called, even though James said he would listen. What if Winnie chooses Labour/Greens, that doesnt automatically make it the new Govt, it needs to be put to the GG. What if Nats ask the Greens, and the Greens say yes (they decide to do what Greens always do overseas, be bi-partisan), then we have Nats and Greens, and the agreement of Labour and NZF is now not enough. Seems desperate by Nats, but hey, its negotiations, and that applies to everybody. Bill not talking to Greens previously is to avoid disharmony from NZF as that would affect negotiations, but is there time by Friday morning when its announced by Winston, for Nats to strike a deal with Greens?

Pumpedd

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#1881872 11-Oct-2017 11:41

Batman:

Pumpedd:

tdgeek:

Pumpedd:

Batman:

and on the verge of becoming Labour PM!

He will NEVER become a Labour MP.

Correct, both parties have stated more than once that PM and Finance Minister is not up for grabs. Aside from any layperson also seeing that is bizarre, for Seymour to grab a headline, shows he is not relevant anymore. If he ever was.

Only way he can become a LAbour MP is to join the Labour party. He can be a coalition Minister or w/e but he still wouldnt be a Labour MP.

Not sure why this goes on but no one said he'd be a labour MP

Blame me..I am becoming dyslexic..took PM for MP. Sorry.

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#1881881 11-Oct-2017 11:54

tdgeek:

So, while all the talk is Nats or Labour, there are other permutations. Nats/Labour, not really, Nats/Greens, well Bill hasnt called, even though James said he would listen. What if Winnie chooses Labour/Greens, that doesnt automatically make it the new Govt, it needs to be put to the GG. What if Nats ask the Greens, and the Greens say yes (they decide to do what Greens always do overseas, be bi-partisan), then we have Nats and Greens, and the agreement of Labour and NZF is now not enough. Seems desperate by Nats, but hey, its negotiations, and that applies to everybody. Bill not talking to Greens previously is to avoid disharmony from NZF as that would affect negotiations, but is there time by Friday morning when its announced by Winston, for Nats to strike a deal with Greens?

He could stretch out quite a lot longer into October even. He has off the top of my head 42 days, Parliament must resume 42 days after the Writs have been filed.

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#1881888 11-Oct-2017 11:58

Pumpedd:

Batman:

Pumpedd:

tdgeek:

Pumpedd:

Batman:

and on the verge of becoming Labour PM!

He will NEVER become a Labour MP.

Correct, both parties have stated more than once that PM and Finance Minister is not up for grabs. Aside from any layperson also seeing that is bizarre, for Seymour to grab a headline, shows he is not relevant anymore. If he ever was.

Only way he can become a LAbour MP is to join the Labour party. He can be a coalition Minister or w/e but he still wouldnt be a Labour MP.

Not sure why this goes on but no one said he'd be a labour MP

Blame me..I am becoming dyslexic..took PM for MP. Sorry.

That's ko

tdgeek

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#1881891 11-Oct-2017 12:00

MikeB4:

tdgeek:

So, while all the talk is Nats or Labour, there are other permutations. Nats/Labour, not really, Nats/Greens, well Bill hasnt called, even though James said he would listen. What if Winnie chooses Labour/Greens, that doesnt automatically make it the new Govt, it needs to be put to the GG. What if Nats ask the Greens, and the Greens say yes (they decide to do what Greens always do overseas, be bi-partisan), then we have Nats and Greens, and the agreement of Labour and NZF is now not enough. Seems desperate by Nats, but hey, its negotiations, and that applies to everybody. Bill not talking to Greens previously is to avoid disharmony from NZF as that would affect negotiations, but is there time by Friday morning when its announced by Winston, for Nats to strike a deal with Greens?

He could stretch out quite a lot longer into October even. He has off the top of my head 42 days, Parliament must resume 42 days after the Writs have been filed.

You mean Bill? Good to know, it may well be another twist in the tale. Could Lab/Gre/NZF hurry up to get GG to set them to Govt to avoid future deals?

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#1881898 11-Oct-2017 12:07

Who can show to the GG that they can form a Government will be appointed, if Lab/NZ Green/NZF present a formal coalition that demonstrates they can govern then the GG will rubber stamp it. Things will get messy if no coalitions can be negotiated which will be nightmare scenario.

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#1881982 11-Oct-2017 15:14

Good article http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/10/patrick-gower-greens-hold-key-to-next-government.html

Winston must know that if Greens are shut out or p!ssed, they will fold his Labour/Greens/NZF coalition. If that happens, National has most of the cards, so can give him less. This tells me he is losing interest in both sides. He should keep close to the Greens to get them on side and that also keeps National honest in the bargaining, but he isn't doing this

Thus, I am picking cross bench. He can take form both. "I will eat all my cake, and I still have it"!

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#1881983 11-Oct-2017 15:18

MikeB4:

Who can show to the GG that they can form a Government will be appointed, if Lab/NZ Green/NZF present a formal coalition that demonstrates they can govern then the GG will rubber stamp it. Things will get messy if no coalitions can be negotiated which will be nightmare scenario.

Is cross bench/minority Govt that much a nightmare? In many ways it gives the public 100% representation. No one oarty has a mandate and no party can do what it likes. Depends if issues regularly become a drama or not or they all act like adults

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#1881986 11-Oct-2017 15:27

tdgeek:

MikeB4:

Who can show to the GG that they can form a Government will be appointed, if Lab/NZ Green/NZF present a formal coalition that demonstrates they can govern then the GG will rubber stamp it. Things will get messy if no coalitions can be negotiated which will be nightmare scenario.

Is cross bench/minority Govt that much a nightmare? In many ways it gives the public 100% representation. No one oarty has a mandate and no party can do what it likes. Depends if issues regularly become a drama or not or they all act like adults

I would dearly love to be proven wrong on this but a minority government while possible would be very bad for NZ. I believe the financial markets would react negatively with the value of the NZ dollar plummeting. The Stock market would drop quite a bit. We could see a rise in unemployment

as a result of retrenchment due to uncertainty. I also believe a minority government would mean an election in a short time frame probably with in a year. If a viable coalitions cannot be found I would rather see a fresh election now and not have years of chaos.

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#1881996 11-Oct-2017 15:39

MikeB4:

tdgeek:

MikeB4:

Who can show to the GG that they can form a Government will be appointed, if Lab/NZ Green/NZF present a formal coalition that demonstrates they can govern then the GG will rubber stamp it. Things will get messy if no coalitions can be negotiated which will be nightmare scenario.

Is cross bench/minority Govt that much a nightmare? In many ways it gives the public 100% representation. No one oarty has a mandate and no party can do what it likes. Depends if issues regularly become a drama or not or they all act like adults

I would dearly love to be proven wrong on this but a minority government while possible would be very bad for NZ. I believe the financial markets would react negatively with the value of the NZ dollar plummeting. The Stock market would drop quite a bit. We could see a rise in unemployment

as a result of retrenchment due to uncertainty. I also believe a minority government would mean an election in a short time frame probably with in a year. If a viable coalitions cannot be found I would rather see a fresh election now and not have years of chaos.

Yes a coalition is better. They cooperate now to strike a deal, then its locked in. But they still have to cooperate in a minority Govt to get things done, and they will be the same things. Except NZF can pick from both sides. But so can National with the Greens. So, it will need to be cooperation to get the same things done. If the markets reacted as you said, thats an over reaction as its still the same players in Govt, each with the same leverage.

A fresh election will give a similar result. When you get two minor parties with a good amount of support, and no artificial parties like ACT and Maori, no one will get 50.1% of the popular vote. The main reason is they are not hard left and hard right, they are both centre with a slant, and some overlapping policies.

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#1882000 11-Oct-2017 15:44

tdgeek:

MikeB4:

tdgeek:

MikeB4:

Who can show to the GG that they can form a Government will be appointed, if Lab/NZ Green/NZF present a formal coalition that demonstrates they can govern then the GG will rubber stamp it. Things will get messy if no coalitions can be negotiated which will be nightmare scenario.

Is cross bench/minority Govt that much a nightmare? In many ways it gives the public 100% representation. No one oarty has a mandate and no party can do what it likes. Depends if issues regularly become a drama or not or they all act like adults

I would dearly love to be proven wrong on this but a minority government while possible would be very bad for NZ. I believe the financial markets would react negatively with the value of the NZ dollar plummeting. The Stock market would drop quite a bit. We could see a rise in unemployment

as a result of retrenchment due to uncertainty. I also believe a minority government would mean an election in a short time frame probably with in a year. If a viable coalitions cannot be found I would rather see a fresh election now and not have years of chaos.

Yes a coalition is better. They cooperate now to strike a deal, then its locked in. But they still have to cooperate in a minority Govt to get things done, and they will be the same things. Except NZF can pick from both sides. But so can National with the Greens. So, it will need to be cooperation to get the same things done. If the markets reacted as you said, thats an over reaction as its still the same players in Govt, each with the same leverage.

A fresh election will give a similar result. When you get two minor parties with a good amount of support, and no artificial parties like ACT and Maori, no one will get 50.1% of the popular vote. The main reason is they are not hard left and hard right, they are both centre with a slant, and some overlapping policies.

First up, the Maori Party is not an artificial party. Secondly of course financial markets will over react that is what they do. David Lange correctly described them as a bunch of demented reef fish. Yes a fresh election may render the same result but it could also render a completely different outcome.

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#1882341 12-Oct-2017 10:37

Arrgghh Winston Peters on the TV over the last few days is getting increasingly arrogant and pompous. I so wish the Green Party would completely rain on his parade and go in coalition with National.

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