Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

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#1989330 6-Apr-2018 10:55

Rikkitic:

There is a real right-wing bias on this thread, with an apparent corresponding need to portray the government, its decisions, and – of course – its mistakes in the worst possible light. Many Geekzone members are tech people, and many of those run their own small businesses. Governments on the right, such as those led by National, are generally perceived to pursue policies that favour business, while those on the left are not. I wonder if this has anything to do with the tone of this thread.

I do not have an issue with pointing out the failures of our leaders, who certainly should be held to account, and I am not particularly impressed with the performance of this government up to now. The problem I have is that there seems to be an implicit assumption in the criticisms that a National government would somehow be the better alternative. I do not see this. When National were in power for nine years, they pursued policies that damaged the country in my opinion. I think it is valid to point those past failures out when looking at the performance of the present government. Since National is not in power today, it cannot be compared as if it were. Its past performance is the only thing that can be looked at.

National governments, or those in which National is the dominant influence, have very different priorities to Labour ones. National wants to build roads. Labour wants to improve public transport. Overall I find the priorities of the left more appealing than those of the right. That is why I vote for them.

There is an element of hysteria in some of the criticisms levelled here. Maybe this will turn out to be the worst government in the history of the country. Maybe it won’t. But Labour-led governments have not flushed the country down the toilet in the past and I don’t believe this one will, either.

Is Jacinda Ardern a weak leader? Maybe she just has a different leadership style. Maybe it is a male macho unforgiving power thing to jump on a Minister who makes a mistake and insist they should resign. Maybe a better approach is to let people learn from their mistakes so they can contribute more value. Maybe the more conciliatory cooperative female approach is to say that people make mistakes, and are entitled to a second chance. Maybe.

I expect this post will be met with the usual foaming responses. Bring it on.

Left or right, male or female, young or old, I don't give a toss. It is the content and context of the discussion that is important.

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rjt123

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#1989335 6-Apr-2018 11:11

MaxLV:

The so called 'broken promises and perceived lack of honesty' are nothing more than the opinions of several participants in this thread.

Wrong. They have become fact.

MaxLV:The reality is that the Coalition government (not just Labour) did meet their 100 day target, as promised, and they're doing what they promised, over the objections of the previous incompetent government and it's supporters.

Very nice, BUT... A term in government is actually 1095 days, they've got to perform for the full term, not just the first 100 days. It's looking like a sprinter trying to run a marathon, leading the pack for the first 100m but they're stumbling already.

MaxLV: The so called 11 billion fiscal hole was and is 'fake news' of the National party. The reality is that due to the fiscal mismanagement and outright incompetence of the previous government have caused a large amount of unforeseen fiscal expenditure the current government will have to find the money for.

Conveniently ignoring the fact their "fiscal mismanagement" delivered a $600 million bonus in tax revenues late last year. Not sure what National did wrong to produce that.

MaxLV: Week by week, the sheer scale of the neglect to crucial social infrastructure by the Key/English government becomes apparent – and with it the size (and expense) of the problems they’ve left behind, for the Ardern government to somehow address. The mouldering walls and the decaying electricity and sewage systems at Middlemore Hospital serve as a perfect symbol of the dilapidation that’s been fostered by pressure to meet the political goals of budgetary constraint. All of it done so that John Key and Bill English could brag about being capable managers, who kept expenditure under control – as if balancing the books was an end in itself.

The aforementioned $600 million could go a long way in rectifying that. Unless it's already disappeared into the $11 billion hole.

Geektastic

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#1989404 6-Apr-2018 11:38

6FIEND:

@Rikkitic

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/28/new-zealands-claim-it-has-no-russian-spies-is-perplexing-why-is-it-isolating-itself

There's an example of an article from a publication with a well known left-leaning bias that clearly articulates the damage that the current government is doing to NZ on the international stage.

Leading and governing a country is not really the right place to start "learning on the job" or to begin making the transition from activist/objector to solution-finder/implementer.

That's an embarrassment for our government that frankly they should be ashamed of - talk about own goals.

Rikkitic

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#1989489 6-Apr-2018 13:54

Just for a change, here is a positive opinion piece on JA. Not saying I agree or otherwise, just pointing out that there are also positive viewpoints. Not many make it to this thread.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

rjt123

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#1989526 6-Apr-2018 14:40

Rikkitic:
Just for a change, here is a positive opinion piece on JA. Not saying I agree or otherwise, just pointing out that there are also positive viewpoints. Not many make it to this thread.

There used to be a few more supporters who posted regularly. But they ran off in a huff, probably because they felt they were defending the indefensible.

Pumpedd

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#1989529 6-Apr-2018 14:42

Rikkitic:

Just for a change, here is a positive opinion piece on JA. Not saying I agree or otherwise, just pointing out that there are also positive viewpoints. Not many make it to this thread.

Took you a while to find that.

Rikkitic

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#1989531 6-Apr-2018 14:42

More likely because they were trolled away by those defending their bubble.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

gulfa

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#1989532 6-Apr-2018 14:44

I don't think we ran off some of us just got sick of the meaningless comments being made over and over again. Policy is what should be in this forum not personal attacks eg "you must have a very low standards"etc

rjt123

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#1989534 6-Apr-2018 14:51

Well you just never know, perhaps that was the reason, though you'd have to be pretty limp to be offended by what's been said on here. Or perhaps a politics forum wasn't the place for them. But I don't think I will dig any deeper on this topic, it doesn't really get anywhere.

MaxLV

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#1989566 6-Apr-2018 15:36

GV27:

He was a high profile name with credibility when it come to economic matters. Again, do you have anything to say about the number of ex-TVNZ staffers who have become Labour Party MPs/Press Secs over the years? Does that to you indicate a concerning politicizing of the supposedly neutral state broadcaster?

No I dont have anything to say about ex-TVNZ staffers and the Labour party. What do you want me to say about them?

MaxLV

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#1989575 6-Apr-2018 15:45

networkn:

gulfa:

This link from a previous post

http://werewolf.co.nz/2018/04/gordon-campbell-on-making-our-roads-safer-less-congested/

I hope all you haters of this present Govt read this. It makes sense . Also read the Middlemore hospital link as well.

The first paragraph suggests that National was going to rise the incise, but National says it was a recommendation that they didn't feel they would require as they had planned properly and didn't need it.

Where/how do you read that *anywhere* in the article, let alone in the first paragraph... It says National planned to increase the national excise tax by 10-20c a litre. Where is your link about what you say they decided not to do? It's not a recent quote from Simon Bridges is it, denying something that could/would have happened if National had been returned to power.

MaxLV

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#1989588 6-Apr-2018 16:08

rjt123:

MaxLV:

The so called 'broken promises and perceived lack of honesty' are nothing more than the opinions of several participants in this thread.

Wrong. They have become fact.

MaxLV:The reality is that the Coalition government (not just Labour) did meet their 100 day target, as promised, and they're doing what they promised, over the objections of the previous incompetent government and it's supporters.

Very nice, BUT... A term in government is actually 1095 days, they've got to perform for the full term, not just the first 100 days. It's looking like a sprinter trying to run a marathon, leading the pack for the first 100m but they're stumbling already.

MaxLV: The so called 11 billion fiscal hole was and is 'fake news' of the National party. The reality is that due to the fiscal mismanagement and outright incompetence of the previous government have caused a large amount of unforeseen fiscal expenditure the current government will have to find the money for.

Conveniently ignoring the fact their "fiscal mismanagement" delivered a $600 million bonus in tax revenues late last year. Not sure what National did wrong to produce that.

MaxLV: Week by week, the sheer scale of the neglect to crucial social infrastructure by the Key/English government becomes apparent – and with it the size (and expense) of the problems they’ve left behind, for the Ardern government to somehow address. The mouldering walls and the decaying electricity and sewage systems at Middlemore Hospital serve as a perfect symbol of the dilapidation that’s been fostered by pressure to meet the political goals of budgetary constraint. All of it done so that John Key and Bill English could brag about being capable managers, who kept expenditure under control – as if balancing the books was an end in itself.

The aforementioned $600 million could go a long way in rectifying that. Unless it's already disappeared into the $11 billion hole.

As I have previously noted, the so called broken promises and perceived lack of honesty only exist in the minds of National party supporters.

You're right, the current government does have 2+ years to fix the mess the previous government has made...

$600 million bonus in tax revenues??? LOL and one stage the National government were borrowing $300+ a week just to run the country! They ran up government debt from $5billion to over $90 billion that we ALL have to pay back. The current government debt (due mostly to the previous government) can be found here: https://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/newzealand

This $600 million wont even come close to fixing the huge fiscal problems the previous government has caused by it's mismanagement and incompetence.

It is going to cost several BILLION to fix just one DHB's buildings caused by the National government withholding capital investments for the DHB's.

[National’s] 2010 tax cuts were inappropriate in a recessionary economy with high levels of inequality and poverty. National used the crisis and a supposed excessive debt level (even at its peak, still much lower than most countries in the OECD) to justify a programme of spending cuts for its entire period in office. It put off spending in a host of areas that would inevitably come home to roost on a future Government including in Health, Superannuation, Education, Housing, Poverty, Environment and Conservation. This is not responsible fiscal management: it is turning a blind eye to the future.
http://werewolf.co.nz/2018/04/gordon-campbell-on-middlemore-hospital-as-a-symptom-of-neglect/

rjt123

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#1989622 6-Apr-2018 16:51

MaxLV:

rjt123:

MaxLV:

The so called 'broken promises and perceived lack of honesty' are nothing more than the opinions of several participants in this thread.

Wrong. They have become fact.

MaxLV:The reality is that the Coalition government (not just Labour) did meet their 100 day target, as promised, and they're doing what they promised, over the objections of the previous incompetent government and it's supporters.

Very nice, BUT... A term in government is actually 1095 days, they've got to perform for the full term, not just the first 100 days. It's looking like a sprinter trying to run a marathon, leading the pack for the first 100m but they're stumbling already.

MaxLV: The so called 11 billion fiscal hole was and is 'fake news' of the National party. The reality is that due to the fiscal mismanagement and outright incompetence of the previous government have caused a large amount of unforeseen fiscal expenditure the current government will have to find the money for.

Conveniently ignoring the fact their "fiscal mismanagement" delivered a $600 million bonus in tax revenues late last year. Not sure what National did wrong to produce that.

MaxLV: Week by week, the sheer scale of the neglect to crucial social infrastructure by the Key/English government becomes apparent – and with it the size (and expense) of the problems they’ve left behind, for the Ardern government to somehow address. The mouldering walls and the decaying electricity and sewage systems at Middlemore Hospital serve as a perfect symbol of the dilapidation that’s been fostered by pressure to meet the political goals of budgetary constraint. All of it done so that John Key and Bill English could brag about being capable managers, who kept expenditure under control – as if balancing the books was an end in itself.

The aforementioned $600 million could go a long way in rectifying that. Unless it's already disappeared into the $11 billion hole.

As I have previously noted, the so called broken promises and perceived lack of honesty only exist in the minds of National party supporters.

You're right, the current government does have 2+ years to fix the mess the previous government has made...

$600 million bonus in tax revenues??? LOL and one stage the National government were borrowing $300+ a week just to run the country! They ran up government debt from $5billion to over $90 billion that we ALL have to pay back. The current government debt (due mostly to the previous government) can be found here: https://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/newzealand

This $600 million wont even come close to fixing the huge fiscal problems the previous government has caused by it's mismanagement and incompetence.

It is going to cost several BILLION to fix just one DHB's buildings caused by the National government withholding capital investments for the DHB's.

[National’s] 2010 tax cuts were inappropriate in a recessionary economy with high levels of inequality and poverty. National used the crisis and a supposed excessive debt level (even at its peak, still much lower than most countries in the OECD) to justify a programme of spending cuts for its entire period in office. It put off spending in a host of areas that would inevitably come home to roost on a future Government including in Health, Superannuation, Education, Housing, Poverty, Environment and Conservation. This is not responsible fiscal management: it is turning a blind eye to the future.
http://werewolf.co.nz/2018/04/gordon-campbell-on-middlemore-hospital-as-a-symptom-of-neglect/

Promise 1: No new taxes **BROKEN**

Promise 2: 100,000 new homes **BROKEN**

Promise 3: 1,000,000 trees **BROKEN**

The $600 million EXTRA in tax revenues was over and above treasury forecasts, so you're welcome to laugh out loud, but as loud as you laugh you still can't laugh it away. Does it worry me that they were borrow $300 million a week. No. But it would appear to concern you, so it begs the question, should they have borrowed MORE to spend more on "Health, Superannuation, Education, Housing, Poverty, Environment and Conservation"? Would that be a more prudent fiscal approach? Or should they have not done the tax cuts and spent more? Or should they have not done the tax cuts and spent nothing extra and dragged the recession out even longer? Perhaps in your warped sense of economics a recession is a good thing and should be prolonged for the benefit of all NZ? Few people in a period of decreasing interest rates actually put extra disposable income into the bank, they spend it, it goes back into the economy, it boosts spending, it boosts the economy. There is a principle behind it, a sound principle that paid off well in terms of a strong economy.

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#1989643 6-Apr-2018 17:52

rjt123:

Promise 1: No new taxes **BROKEN**
Promise 2: 100,000 new homes **BROKEN**
Promise 3: 1,000,000 trees **BROKEN**

To be fair at least two of those are policies and kind of different.

MaxLV

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#1989653 6-Apr-2018 18:30

rjt123:

Promise 1: No new taxes **BROKEN**

Promise 2: 100,000 new homes **BROKEN**

Promise 3: 1,000,000 trees **BROKEN**

Promise 1. The fuel excise tax increase is not a new tax. It's an increase on a current tax.

Promise 2. As you yourself stated, the government has 2+ years, did you really expect 100,000 new homes to suddenly appear? Good things take time.

Promise 3. Over 10 years remember. they've still got over nine years to get the trees planted, and as discussed in previous debates here, planting 1 million trees is easily done.

rjt123:

The $600 million EXTRA in tax revenues was over and above treasury forecasts, so you're welcome to laugh out loud, but as loud as you laugh you still can't laugh it away. Does it worry me that they were borrow $300 million a week. No. But it would appear to concern you, so it begs the question, should they have borrowed MORE to spend more on "Health, Superannuation, Education, Housing, Poverty, Environment and Conservation"? Would that be a more prudent fiscal approach? Or should they have not done the tax cuts and spent more? Or should they have not done the tax cuts and spent nothing extra and dragged the recession out even longer? Perhaps in your warped sense of economics a recession is a good thing and should be prolonged for the benefit of all NZ? Few people in a period of decreasing interest rates actually put extra disposable income into the bank, they spend it, it goes back into the economy, it boosts spending, it boosts the economy. There is a principle behind it, a sound principle that paid off well in terms of a strong economy.

Again I refer you to this:

Week by week, the sheer scale of the neglect to crucial social infrastructure by the Key/English government becomes apparent – and with it the size (and expense) of the problems they’ve left behind, for the Ardern government to somehow address. The mouldering walls and the decaying electricity and sewage systems at Middlemore Hospital serve as a perfect symbol of the dilapidation that’s been fostered by pressure to meet the political goals of budgetary constraint. All of it done so that John Key and Bill English could brag about being capable managers, who kept expenditure under control – as if balancing the books was an end in itself.

Meanwhile at Middlemore, the necessary investments in maintenance were being deferred – as they have has been in DHBs all around the country, in order to prop up the illusion of competence by a [National] government always far more interested in delivering another round of tax cuts, if it possibly could. It didn’t want to hear bad news. Its managers in public health heard that, and obeyed orders.

http://werewolf.co.nz/2018/04/gordon-campbell-on-middlemore-hospital-as-a-symptom-of-neglect/

And finally, some wise words for you to mull over:

The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.
Franklin D. Roosevelt
32nd U.S. President

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