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1523 posts

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  # 2021755 24-May-2018 12:17
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MikeB4:

 

GV27:

 

MikeB4:

 

Existing home on larger properties could achieve it but as I said They could be made mandatory in all new subdivision both residential and commercial where it is far easier to do. 

 

 

Congrats, you've just added another $50K to Kiwibuild properties. Mind you the price isn't that firm so who cares, right?

 

Solar doesn't work with apartments, which is what we need to be building. 

 

 

I haven't added anything.

 

It is clear though that fixing the mess we are in is not going to be cheap. With any of these things payback is over time, not next week. Putting anything in new builds is always cheaper that retro fitting. 

 

 

And yes, adding a solar system to a new build is still going to be pricier than no solar system at all; and if you're including it in residential developments then it's going to be an added cost for Kiwibuild homes. But that's someone else's problem, right? 


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  # 2021758 24-May-2018 12:22
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GV27:

 

MikeB4:

 

GV27:

 

MikeB4:

 

Existing home on larger properties could achieve it but as I said They could be made mandatory in all new subdivision both residential and commercial where it is far easier to do. 

 

 

Congrats, you've just added another $50K to Kiwibuild properties. Mind you the price isn't that firm so who cares, right?

 

Solar doesn't work with apartments, which is what we need to be building. 

 

 

I haven't added anything.

 

It is clear though that fixing the mess we are in is not going to be cheap. With any of these things payback is over time, not next week. Putting anything in new builds is always cheaper that retro fitting. 

 

 

And yes, adding a solar system to a new build is still going to be pricier than no solar system at all; and if you're including it in residential developments then it's going to be an added cost for Kiwibuild homes. But that's someone else's problem, right? 

 

 

 

 

What is wrong with including alternative heating and cooling options in new builds including KiwiBuild to bring about long term savings and environmental positives?  It would seem the only acceptable change for you is the status quo!





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  # 2021763 24-May-2018 12:30
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MikeB4:

 

What is wrong with including alternative heating and cooling options in new builds including KiwiBuild to bring about long term savings and environmental positives?  It would seem the only acceptable change for you is the status quo!

 

 

Well, I think the point he is making is that house affordability is an issue, Kiwibuild was supposed to be a major part of the solution to this. They have already screwed up the pricing once (not to mention massive changes around targets and timelines) , and given how much they have harped on about how important being "green" is, you'd think they would have already catered for this in their new properties, which I don't see ANY evidence of. If they add it now, then as mentioned, the price is going to go from 650, to 700K, which will amount to around 100K difference over what was indicated. You might be in a position to absorb it, or be glib about it, as it doesn't affect you directly, but a lot of people can't afford 50K more, even if it's to save the planet. The option then becomes whether the tax payer should stump up for it. The Kiwibuild is just another example of poor planning by Labour. 

 

 

 

Labour is discovering that running a country isn't as easy as putting someone appealing on TV, getting her to say a few nice things and having a lolly scramble to get elected. They are finding that as indicated by the previous Government, everything is about Balance. 

 

 

 

 


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  # 2021764 24-May-2018 12:31
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MikeB4:

GV27:


MikeB4:


GV27:


MikeB4:


Existing home on larger properties could achieve it but as I said They could be made mandatory in all new subdivision both residential and commercial where it is far easier to do. 



Congrats, you've just added another $50K to Kiwibuild properties. Mind you the price isn't that firm so who cares, right?


Solar doesn't work with apartments, which is what we need to be building. 



I haven't added anything.


It is clear though that fixing the mess we are in is not going to be cheap. With any of these things payback is over time, not next week. Putting anything in new builds is always cheaper that retro fitting. 



And yes, adding a solar system to a new build is still going to be pricier than no solar system at all; and if you're including it in residential developments then it's going to be an added cost for Kiwibuild homes. But that's someone else's problem, right? 



 


What is wrong with including alternative heating and cooling options in new builds including KiwiBuild to bring about long term savings and environmental positives?  It would seem the only acceptable change for you is the status quo!



You'll never get mass adoption of any 'green' scheme unless there are cost benefits to it in the medium term. A 20 year payback period is too long. Should we just do it for the environments sake? Probably, but the reality is that it won't happen unless there's a monetary benefit, and anything else flies in the face of home affordability. The government could invest more into r&d for New technology to reduce costs on these technologies, e.g. cheaper/more effective solar.

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  # 2021765 24-May-2018 12:33
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I see my prediction that Trevor Mallard would be about the worst possible choice as speaker of the house has turned out to be correct. 

 

He needs to be far far away from politics. I can't think of a single nice thing to say about him, except soon he may retire. 

 

 


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  # 2021767 24-May-2018 12:37
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MikeB4:

 

Yes the root cause of toxic algae is nutrients entering the water, the catalyst is slow river flow rates that prevents the  flushing of the riverbed. Remote Valleys are not wasted land they serve important roles in the ecosystem. We don't need artificial lakes for fun we have more than enough natural lakes for that and we ate surrounded by a reasonable large chuck of water.  

 

 

Ahhh, the joys of being young foolish and ignorant...

 

 

This is called "dam-dropping" a fun sport unique to taranaki. (Yep, just another benefit to life in the naki).

 

Dams are great, very minimal environmental impact in the long term, nothing that couldn't be mitigated with more riparian planting. Basically, nature is an incredible healer, a lot of greenie's problems are very much hypothetical and don't really eventuate or occur to the extent they are expected to in actuality.

 

 


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  # 2021779 24-May-2018 12:39
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That's the mistake we make so often in NZ with planning we are incredibly short sighted. But I am sure if a National Government came up with ideas like this praise would be heaped upon them. Green schemes are NOT about saving money next week they are about survival which of course brings huge long term gains.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  # 2021796 24-May-2018 12:45
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MikeB4:

 

That's the mistake we make so often in NZ with planning we are incredibly short sighted. But I am sure if a National Government came up with ideas like this praise would be heaped upon them. Green schemes are NOT about saving money next week they are about survival which of course brings huge long term gains.

 

 

Sure, but as has been pointed out, our contributions in this department, even if they were incredibly aggressive, amount to a rounding error and in effect won't save the planet at all. I am not saying we shouldn't do something, but doing something so we can be "seen" to be being proactive, is stupid. 

 

In my opinion, JA is making a lot of noise about this because she knows it's what people want to hear. People are generally pretty ignorant, but if they came out and said;

 

"If we spend 50B on green initiatives, which we will fund by increasing all new house prices by at least 50K and by taxing people another 10c in the $, and it will make less than half a percent difference to the overall problem" do you think people would get behind it? Do you really think they should?

 

 


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  # 2021801 24-May-2018 12:56
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networkn:

 

MikeB4:

 

That's the mistake we make so often in NZ with planning we are incredibly short sighted. But I am sure if a National Government came up with ideas like this praise would be heaped upon them. Green schemes are NOT about saving money next week they are about survival which of course brings huge long term gains.

 

 

Sure, but as has been pointed out, our contributions in this department, even if they were incredibly aggressive, amount to a rounding error and in effect won't save the planet at all. I am not saying we shouldn't do something, but doing something so we can be "seen" to be being proactive, is stupid. 

 

In my opinion, JA is making a lot of noise about this because she knows it's what people want to hear. People are generally pretty ignorant, but if they came out and said;

 

"If we spend 50B on green initiatives, which we will fund by increasing all new house prices by at least 50K and by taxing people another 10c in the $, and it will make less than half a percent difference to the overall problem" do you think people would get behind it? Do you really think they should?

 

 

 

 

 

 

And imagine if all nations take that selfish attitude, we will be certain of probable extinction at worse, but condemning future generations and generations here now to a terrible future. I do not wish to present that legacy to my mokopuna.  





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


624 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2021809 24-May-2018 13:15
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MikeB4:

 

And imagine if all nations take that selfish attitude, we will be certain of probable extinction at worse, but condemning future generations and generations here now to a terrible future. I do not wish to present that legacy to my mokopuna.  

 

 

 

 

Humans are innately wired from a psychological perspective to focus on immediate rather than long-term benefits. This, combined with a scarcity of resource (money) means we need to take a pragmatic approach to modifying behaviour in this particular situation. Like turning a large ship, small but regular nudges are the optimal method to change direction.

 

You're right, but unfortunately human nature gets in the way.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Ultimate Geek


  # 2021810 24-May-2018 13:19
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rjt123:

 

Ahhh, the joys of being young foolish and ignorant...

 

This is called "dam-dropping" a fun sport unique to taranaki. (Yep, just another benefit to life in the naki).

 

Dams are great, very minimal environmental impact in the long term, nothing that couldn't be mitigated with more riparian planting. Basically, nature is an incredible healer, a lot of greenie's problems are very much hypothetical and don't really eventuate or occur to the extent they are expected to in actuality.

 

 

The dam and lake around Patea is also very nice. Although I wouldn't try to dam drop from that one!

 

And for the fish conservationists, many of those dams now have bypasses.


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  # 2021818 24-May-2018 13:28
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MikeB4:

 

And imagine if all nations take that selfish attitude, we will be certain of probable extinction at worse, but condemning future generations and generations here now to a terrible future. I do not wish to present that legacy to my mokopuna.  

 

 

Oh, don't be so dramatic! The Nations causing the most harm need to get with the programme, what we do here will NOT prevent the extinction level events. Like everything else in the world we are spectators and our efforts are rounding errors. Our efforts are to soley to "make a statement" and are merely vanity by the PM, because she wants a legacy. You could tell when she made her "this is my nuclear ban moment" she had been practising it in the mirror for 10+ years.

 

The best things we could do to effect some form of meaningful climate trade, is add our weight to any penalties applied to countries who are the biggest perpetrators, by not buying their products, not trading with them. The problem with things like that, is everyone likes their iphones way too much! Also our trade amounts to only a rounding error too, but "we have to start somewhere".

 

 

 

 


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  # 2021862 24-May-2018 14:21
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networkn:

 

MikeB4:

 

And imagine if all nations take that selfish attitude, we will be certain of probable extinction at worse, but condemning future generations and generations here now to a terrible future. I do not wish to present that legacy to my mokopuna.  

 

 

Oh, don't be so dramatic! The Nations causing the most harm need to get with the programme, what we do here will NOT prevent the extinction level events. Like everything else in the world we are spectators and our efforts are rounding errors. Our efforts are to soley to "make a statement" and are merely vanity by the PM, because she wants a legacy. You could tell when she made her "this is my nuclear ban moment" she had been practising it in the mirror for 10+ years.

 

The best things we could do to effect some form of meaningful climate trade, is add our weight to any penalties applied to countries who are the biggest perpetrators, by not buying their products, not trading with them. The problem with things like that, is everyone likes their iphones way too much! Also our trade amounts to only a rounding error too, but "we have to start somewhere".

 

 

 

 

 

 

Make all the insults you desire it doesn't change a thing, I believe what is being said here is please don't take my toys away because I want to play with them and to hell with anyone else. We cannot demand sanctions against other nations if we are not prepared to make changes and sacrifices ourselves.

 

I think your obsession with Jacinda Ardern is clouding your vision. 





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 2021875 24-May-2018 14:33
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wsnz:

 

MikeB4:

 

And imagine if all nations take that selfish attitude, we will be certain of probable extinction at worse, but condemning future generations and generations here now to a terrible future. I do not wish to present that legacy to my mokopuna.  

 

 

 

 

Humans are innately wired from a psychological perspective to focus on immediate rather than long-term benefits. This, combined with a scarcity of resource (money) means we need to take a pragmatic approach to modifying behaviour in this particular situation. Like turning a large ship, small but regular nudges are the optimal method to change direction.

 

You're right, but unfortunately human nature gets in the way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are right, which means climate change efforts are null and void, which is what the world is doing and the consensus of quite a few here. Sad, but probably true. Humans are awesome


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  # 2021880 24-May-2018 14:57
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networkn:

 

The best things we could do to effect some form of meaningful climate trade, is add our weight to any penalties applied to countries who are the biggest perpetrators, by not buying their products, not trading with them. The problem with things like that, is everyone likes their iphones way too much! Also our trade amounts to only a rounding error too, but "we have to start somewhere".

 

 

 

 

That pretty much sums it up. To make a distinct difference would require the whole world to make a huge shift in lifestyle, but we're not prepared to do that, because despite any imminent doom (real or imagined) we do like our current lifestyle (think phones, electronics, travel.... and all things un-green). 

 

So why don't we legislate to change all that? Because a government wants to be re-elected. 

 

So why would a government that cares for the people enough to save them from extinction NOT be relected? well obviously the MAJORITY of the population doesn't care, or that government would be re-elected, unquestionably.

 

So despite an army sjw's trying their best to effect meaningful change, unfortunately it would seem that the majority of the people aren't actually interested in change. 


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