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  Reply # 1898707 10-Nov-2017 10:23
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tdgeek:

 

networkn:

 

 

 

Labour *supported* the TPPA, and unless she pulls the pin, which she won't, they will have tried twice in a week to approach world leaders for concessions and failed. Labour talked a big talk during the election about what she was going to insist on, but she doesn't seem to grasp that we have no bargaining power really, and when she inevitably fails to get what she wants, she will make excuses about it. Before someone says "National wouldn't have got those either", it's irrelevant, because JA said she could get it done, and I predict she will not be able to. Again.

 

Most protesters around the TPPA couldn't even name one thing they were specifically bent out of shape about. I don't think "everyone" didn't want the TPPA. A lot of people have specific issues around rights that were being given up for signing it. 

 

 

 

 

Insisting on doesn't mean that she will get what she wants. She can insist as much as she wants for NZ, but it may or may not happen, primarily as you say, we are too small. Nothing wrong with trying. The Oz request re Manus, that was never going to happen, she knew that, as did everyone, but she put the offer in, same happened as quoted here I think with Joyce on a topic that wasnt going to happen, but he tried. I dont really see the issue. If we put lofty heights on what she goes for so we can grow a list of fails, thats a bit negative. When she tries something that is achievable for NZ and doesn't get it or do it, then target her

 

 

During the campaign she used strong language to indicate that Labour, led by her, would make things happen that National could not. She is better, IMO to keep her mouth closed go and quietly achieve and then promote her success, than to bang her fist on the table then not.

 

I don't subscribe to the "tried your best, never mind, have a gold star" brigade. I am of the underpromise and overdeliver brigade and in my opinion, JA has set herself up to fail as what she said she could get done, in general, I have serious doubts as to whether she can.

 

She is super critical of National and the fact they alone are responsible for all the failures that occur in NZ during their reign (her speech in Parliment was awful), and by making those poorly chosen comments, she has painted herself into a corner to be held to the same standard.

 

She is finding out the hard way, that it's not easy to lead a country, nor walk the walk rather than what she has done up to now, which is talk a good game. 

 

Still early days though, she could still surprise us. 

 

 


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  Reply # 1898734 10-Nov-2017 10:36
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She said it many many times. It is becoming apparent that they wanted to gain power at any cost. 


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1898745 10-Nov-2017 10:54
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bmt:

 

Been a few days since I visited and there's too many new pages to go through.

 

The usual people posting in their echo chamber..

 

Labour still in government..

 

Nothing's changed I guess :)

 

 

If that's what it takes to make you feel better - then good for you.

 

However, this forum is the antithesis of an "Echo Chamber" with opposing views being debated in a vigorous and (mostly) civil fashion on an almost daily basis.

 

OxfordDictionary:

 

Echo Chamber

 

2. An environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered.

 

 

 

 

Nothing's changed?  I disagree.  the Labour government is demonstrating that they are disorganised and incompetent and falling well short of expectations.  The media along with their supporters are turning on them without mercy.

 

Eg.

 

https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/in-defence-of-discord

 

Remember Jacinda Ardern saying in the debates she could survive politics without lying? Well that didn't last long... Her claim that Labour knew it had the numbers and really had the Speaker's vote under control the whole time, is clearly a load of hooey. Otherwise, it's a display of ineptness.

 

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2017/11/07/new-government-meltdown-on-first-day/

 

FFS! It was a horror meltdown on day one…  no one on the Government’s side had even bothered to check something as basic as what the rules on absent MPs voting rights were???

 

What level of f###witedness is this?

 

They ended up having to give National the power to stymie every single f###ing Select Committee just as they threatened they would because someone from the Government couldn’t count!!!

 

Tell me this is a joke, some terrible, horrible joke.

 

(Edit:  seems that I needed to censor the quoted section)


bmt

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  Reply # 1898816 10-Nov-2017 11:33
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Isn't Australia against ISDS too? I thought I heard it somewhere but hard to find any quick answers, most Google results are rabid left wing anti TPPA sites..

 

Could be other countries too, wouldn't be surprised. Is it really Jacinda vs 10 other countries then?

 

Pumpedd:

 

They also refused to reaffirm their election promise on spending in questiontime yesterday several times.. Seems quite a bit of their promise was lies to the NZ people. I hope I am wrong as I almost voted for them myself.

 

 

Hmm no proven lies that I've seen. Hard to go past John "we're not going to raise GST" Key when talking actual election lies..

 

 


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  Reply # 1898829 10-Nov-2017 11:43
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bmt:

 

Isn't Australia against ISDS too? I thought I heard it somewhere but hard to find any quick answers, most Google results are rabid left wing anti TPPA sites..

 

Could be other countries too, wouldn't be surprised. Is it really Jacinda vs 10 other countries then?

 

Pumpedd:

 

They also refused to reaffirm their election promise on spending in questiontime yesterday several times.. Seems quite a bit of their promise was lies to the NZ people. I hope I am wrong as I almost voted for them myself.

 

 

Hmm no proven lies that I've seen. Hard to go past John "we're not going to raise GST" Key when talking actual election lies..

 

 

 

 

Very true. I guess its fine to nitpick, but nitpicking should be an equal opportunity argument!  I guess she's an abject failure as she hasn't implemented all of her policies yet... Wherever you look in politics you will find issues. The US has stats on what was done and not done, and 70% seems to be there good effort, not sure if there is an equivalent here though


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  Reply # 1899144 11-Nov-2017 10:20
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Go Canada!   Yay!   I hope this means the end of TPP Version 2.    


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  Reply # 1899193 11-Nov-2017 11:04
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amiga500:

Go Canada!   Yay!   I hope this means the end of TPP Version 2.    



Yeah, free trade is a crock, especially for exporters.....

/sarcastic

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  Reply # 1899220 11-Nov-2017 11:57
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tdgeek:
amiga500:

 

Go Canada!   Yay!   I hope this means the end of TPP Version 2.    

 



Yeah, free trade is a crock, especially for exporters.....

/sarcastic

 

 

 

Our farmers will have a lot less to export under this government soon enough...not sure what will fund all the spending then. Even our head of state has been removed from the parliamentary prayer.


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  Reply # 1899245 11-Nov-2017 13:35
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Pumpedd: Even our head of state has been removed from the parliamentary prayer.

 

 

An important step in the right direction. Now for the rest of it.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1899271 11-Nov-2017 15:35
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I see these 'free trade' agreements as close cousins of tax loopholes such as Nike being able to register their business in the Netherlands & taking advantage of the tax laws of that country while avoiding paying tax in countries such as Germany.   Of course it's not only Nike but many others such as Google and Apple.    The FTA's & tax laws around the World are set to favour the mega rich & the mega rich corporations.     Of course barring something like a 1930's world wide depression, none of this will change so I lose no sleep about it - it's pointless...


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  Reply # 1899330 11-Nov-2017 18:21
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amiga500:

 

I see these 'free trade' agreements as close cousins of tax loopholes such as Nike being able to register their business in the Netherlands & taking advantage of the tax laws of that country while avoiding paying tax in countries such as Germany.   Of course it's not only Nike but many others such as Google and Apple.    The FTA's & tax laws around the World are set to favour the mega rich & the mega rich corporations.     Of course barring something like a 1930's world wide depression, none of this will change so I lose no sleep about it - it's pointless...

 

 

Clearly you are so knowledgeable and are wasted here.


gzt

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  Reply # 1899345 11-Nov-2017 18:49
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There's no need for another round of pointless insults that do not address the topic.

gzt

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  Reply # 1899347 11-Nov-2017 19:03
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PhantomNVD: In the vein of the Trump and Winston threads... where will Jacinda go with her tall poppy syndrome?

What is this talk poppy syndrome you speak of?

Wikipedia: The tall poppy syndrome describes aspects of a culture where people of high status are resented, attacked, cut down or criticised simply because they have been classified as superior to their peers. This is similar to begrudgery, the resentment or envy of the success of a peer.

I'm not aware of any instance where Ardern has expressed anything like this. It appears to me that this is an entirely silly proposition and nothing more. As the starting post for this topic it appears to have set the tone.

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  Reply # 1899353 11-Nov-2017 19:27
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amiga500:

 

I see these 'free trade' agreements as close cousins of tax loopholes such as Nike being able to register their business in the Netherlands & taking advantage of the tax laws of that country while avoiding paying tax in countries such as Germany.   Of course it's not only Nike but many others such as Google and Apple.    The FTA's & tax laws around the World are set to favour the mega rich & the mega rich corporations.     Of course barring something like a 1930's world wide depression, none of this will change so I lose no sleep about it - it's pointless...

 

 

I may be wrong, but going by your prevoius post are you more concerned that it may affect your pirating? Pirating is illegal, illicit, and copyright infringing, but you are unlikely to get caught. So support exporters, and got your fix, easy.


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  Reply # 1899357 11-Nov-2017 19:35
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gzt:
PhantomNVD: In the vein of the Trump and Winston threads... where will Jacinda go with her tall poppy syndrome?

What is this talk poppy syndrome you speak of?

Wikipedia: The tall poppy syndrome describes aspects of a culture where people of high status are resented, attacked, cut down or criticised simply because they have been classified as superior to their peers. This is similar to begrudgery, the resentment or envy of the success of a peer.

I'm not aware of any instance where Ardern has expressed anything like this. It appears to me that this is an entirely silly proposition and nothing more. As the starting post for this topic it appears to have set the tone.

 

While this thread is 100% anti Adern, and there have been issues with this new Govt, and she hasn't passed all of her policies this week, another fail :-) , she is out there, she is DOING things, and she from all accounts is making an impact on the world stage. She is not a tall poppy, those that buy into this big smile, 37, female, need to get past that and treat this as a new Govt, which may do ok, may do well, or may fail. That is yet to be decided. But unlike National, which covers the vast majority of my past voting habits, things are being done. I am sure she will do things that I am happy with, and do things that I am not happy with, but she is doing things that National have failed to do, IMHO. "DO THINGS" NZ is too small to sit back and do nothing and let the market manage everything. So she got my vote for that single reason. 


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