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21745 posts

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  # 1904324 20-Nov-2017 09:39
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tdgeek:

 

Pumpedd:

 

networkn:

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/99037871/risk-could-scupper-reentering-pike-river-mine

 

I am against re-entry, but the coalition made a massive deal about the fact they would go back in and now it would seem on the face of it, they are hedging their bets at best. 

 

 

 

 

Seems they got into power based on many lies and deceits.

 

 

Did they Govt Guarantee that they will definitely go in? 100%. No questions asked? Its a done deal? if so, you are correct

 

Under National

 

"I think one of the problems has been that they haven't felt there's been contestable advice, that there's been enough transparency," she said.

 

Under Labour

 

"We've said that we certainly hope and believe from the evidence that we've seen that it's possible, and that's our starting point. but if we find information that seems robust, and is robust to both us and them then we'll work through that together."

 

Seems pretty sensible to me. I have no issue that National did not make it happen, no one knows whether its safe or not

 

 

 

 

You are taking something said pre-election, with something said today. My issue is what Labour, NZF and Greens said BEFORE the election, to get votes. 

 

IF they had said during the election, that they were open to investigating the issue and assessing the risk, and they might consider going in, then you could understand it, but what I heard, and certainly from my perspective, what the families expected from what they said, was they had seen enough evidence to support re-entry. 

 

 


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  # 1904326 20-Nov-2017 09:49
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networkn:

 

tdgeek:

 

networkn:

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/99037871/risk-could-scupper-reentering-pike-river-mine

 

I am against re-entry, but the coalition made a massive deal about the fact they would go back in and now it would seem on the face of it, they are hedging their bets at best. 

 

 

 

 

Seems pretty standard to me. Everyone knows there is a risk, including the families who dont want anyone else hurt. Assess the risk fully then decide. I guess the interesting issue will be if the Govt says risk is too high, families says we dont think so. Its been inert for some time, and theoretically you could just wander down there as long as your lighting was not a flammable risk. Legal issues too. The best the families can hope for if they cannot go in, is a full assessment that backs up National's position, and Labour agrees now that a full assessment has been carried out. Im unsure what National assessed TBH, but its a situation where you would err on the side of caution

 

 

This is not how they campaigned on it. They said they had seen the reports and believed it was safe. They didn't say they would assess it and make a decision, they said they would go in. 

 

 

 

 

Lost my post, I hate that

 

Quick Google

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/west-coast/98088656/pike-river-campaigning-worthwhile-as-manned-reentry-given-promised-victims-mother-say

 

Yes they committed. Many international mining experts say it will be safe. I wasnt aware but all parties except National/ACT support it

 

So yes, bet hedging for sure


 
 
 
 


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  # 1904328 20-Nov-2017 09:51
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@tdgeek so if they decide now that it's not safe and refuse entry, do you consider they lied?

 

I consider that a lie. 


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  # 1904329 20-Nov-2017 09:51
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networkn:

 

tdgeek:

 

Pumpedd:

 

networkn:

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/99037871/risk-could-scupper-reentering-pike-river-mine

 

I am against re-entry, but the coalition made a massive deal about the fact they would go back in and now it would seem on the face of it, they are hedging their bets at best. 

 

 

 

 

Seems they got into power based on many lies and deceits.

 

 

Did they Govt Guarantee that they will definitely go in? 100%. No questions asked? Its a done deal? if so, you are correct

 

Under National

 

"I think one of the problems has been that they haven't felt there's been contestable advice, that there's been enough transparency," she said.

 

Under Labour

 

"We've said that we certainly hope and believe from the evidence that we've seen that it's possible, and that's our starting point. but if we find information that seems robust, and is robust to both us and them then we'll work through that together."

 

Seems pretty sensible to me. I have no issue that National did not make it happen, no one knows whether its safe or not

 

 

 

 

You are taking something said pre-election, with something said today. My issue is what Labour, NZF and Greens said BEFORE the election, to get votes. 

 

IF they had said during the election, that they were open to investigating the issue and assessing the risk, and they might consider going in, then you could understand it, but what I heard, and certainly from my perspective, what the families expected from what they said, was they had seen enough evidence to support re-entry. 

 

 

 

 

After that link I gave, I agree. Very likely would be a best case policy and thats what should have been stated


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  # 1904331 20-Nov-2017 09:54
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networkn:

 

@tdgeek so if they decide now that it's not safe and refuse entry, do you consider they lied?

 

I consider that a lie. 

 

 

I would too. Even saying really really really likely is not the same as saying we will.

 

I am sure she will absolutely deal with this arghh!  I cant afford to throw any more plates at my plasma every time I hear her use that word 50 times

 

Edit, she/they should be taken to task over these conflicting statements


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  # 1904381 20-Nov-2017 10:24
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Our PM was pretty busy last week. I went to 3 events and she was at all of them and 2 I didn't go to. She was having selfies taken and hugging everyone. I am torn. Part of me thinks every minute she isn't in office she isn't breaking stuff, part of me think's she has a country to rui.. I mean Run. 

 

It's like having our very own Kiwi Kardashian.


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  # 1904384 20-Nov-2017 10:32
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I don't see it that way. If you go back through the pre-election coverage, which I have, every statement talks about safe re-entry. Nowhere do they say they are just going to march in singing hi-ho. What they say is that the evidence they have seen suggests that a way can be found to enter the drift 'safely'. If further investigation says otherwise, then that is new information that changes things. If people are determined to look for mendacity, as some here are, I'm sure they will find it, but I don't see it in this example.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1904386 20-Nov-2017 10:39
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networkn:

 

Our PM was pretty busy last week. I went to 3 events and she was at all of them and 2 I didn't go to. She was having selfies taken and hugging everyone. I am torn. Part of me thinks every minute she isn't in office she isn't breaking stuff, part of me think's she has a country to rui.. I mean Run. 

 

It's like having our very own Kiwi Kardashian.

 

 

Our resident critic was pretty busy last week. He went to three events taking notes on the PMs body language. I am torn. Part of me thinks that every minute he is out there, at least he isn't posting about her here, which is a huge relief. On the other hand, what do we do for light entertainment?

 

It's like having our very own Master Chef serving up dishes of cold vengeance. 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 1904387 20-Nov-2017 10:42
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They made the mine an election bribe....pure and simple.

 

National had several high power reports explaining and proving the safety issues but most people chose to ignore them for political gain. 

 

The whole mine is now a non issue imo. If one of my family died in that mine I would want it sealed and his remains left with his comrades rather than brought out bone by bone. It is now a fitting place for a memorial.

 

Little is politicising the issue for some reason I do not understand and once again the PM has pulled one of her Ministers into line.


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  # 1904388 20-Nov-2017 10:44
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Rikkitic:

 

networkn:

 

Our PM was pretty busy last week. I went to 3 events and she was at all of them and 2 I didn't go to. She was having selfies taken and hugging everyone. I am torn. Part of me thinks every minute she isn't in office she isn't breaking stuff, part of me think's she has a country to rui.. I mean Run. 

 

It's like having our very own Kiwi Kardashian.

 

 

Our resident critic was pretty busy last week. He went to three events taking notes on the PMs body language. I am torn. Part of me thinks that every minute he is out there, at least he isn't posting about her here, which is a huge relief. On the other hand, what do we do for light entertainment?

 

It's like having our very own Master Chef serving up dishes of cold vengeance. 

 

 

 

 

He at least doesnt attack you like you attack him. His points are usually about the topic and rather than counter his argument you prefer to slander the writer. 


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  # 1904390 20-Nov-2017 10:48
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Rikkitic:

 

networkn:

 

Our PM was pretty busy last week. I went to 3 events and she was at all of them and 2 I didn't go to. She was having selfies taken and hugging everyone. I am torn. Part of me thinks every minute she isn't in office she isn't breaking stuff, part of me think's she has a country to rui.. I mean Run. 

 

It's like having our very own Kiwi Kardashian.

 

 

Our resident critic was pretty busy last week. He went to three events taking notes on the PMs body language. I am torn. Part of me thinks that every minute he is out there, at least he isn't posting about her here, which is a huge relief. On the other hand, what do we do for light entertainment?

 

It's like having our very own Master Chef serving up dishes of cold vengeance. 

 

 

 

 

Clever.

 

 


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  # 1904392 20-Nov-2017 10:57
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networkn:

 

Clever.

 

 

Thank you.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 1904395 20-Nov-2017 11:02
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This thread needs a vacation. 





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 1904401 20-Nov-2017 11:23
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Pumpedd:

 

They made the mine an election bribe....pure and simple.

 

National had several high power reports explaining and proving the safety issues but most people chose to ignore them for political gain. 

 

The whole mine is now a non issue imo. If one of my family died in that mine I would want it sealed and his remains left with his comrades rather than brought out bone by bone. It is now a fitting place for a memorial.

 

Little is politicising the issue for some reason I do not understand and once again the PM has pulled one of her Ministers into line.

 

 

We could start a thread on lies, deceit, and other non mandated major changes. With respect to the families, this is a small issue, and I agree with your sentiments, its a fitting place of rest.

 

I think the adjectives are borne more of political resentment than this or any other issue


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  # 1904402 20-Nov-2017 11:25
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MikeB4:

 

This thread needs a vacation. 

 

 

There is a button called unwatch that will achieve the same thing :) 

 

 


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