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18517 posts

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  # 1904669 20-Nov-2017 15:23
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Pumpedd:

 

tdgeek:

 

networkn:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

Did you miss it?   "Fault"  :-)

 

re Pike River, Its time we had the reports, in plain english that both sides based their decisions on. Its a pity when an issue that for a small few (families) turns into a media and regional bickering match. They don't really need that. What they need is closure, the memorial as mentioned here, but as I think you said, its all riven by grief, we dont really wanr to extend that any further

 

 

Haha good one re fault. 

 

The National Government tried their best to put the thing to bed. Labour and NZF and the Greens kept it going, and have given the families hope and a longer timeline, and this is why I feel they should be held accountable. 

 

 

 

 

If its defined as not safe then I agree. But we dont know anything as we have two sets of expert opinions, I think we all need to see the reports, then its doable, not doable and it can be put to rest, and whichever party is holding back the truth, be accountable

 

 

It has been deemed unsafe by a couple of high level Government Agency reports. The only reports that say it is safe are not in writing and conjecture by so-called overseas experts and Winston Peters.

 

Didnt Winston offer to go into the mine first without any more reports?

 

 

I see. So its only about National vs Labour again. Well it is the JA bashing thread, but the side topic falls into the same slippery slope.

 

I have never seen any so called overseas experts that do reports verbally and not in writing, maybe JA has tapes and not papers

 

And a Govt Agency that fell under the National Govt is fine? But not overseas experts that are apparently so called? And you know that what they said is not in writing, and everyone knows its only conjecture?

 

Nothing wrong with debate but this is totally anti Labour biased, I'd be a bit creative and hide some of that when saying the same concerns


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  # 1904671 20-Nov-2017 15:31
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The issue was that H & S laws (which have been heavily enforced across NZ for the last few years) require all risks to be mitigated to the point where there is no risk or potential for harm.

 

Unless the government can be absolutely certain there is no risk then they set a precedent by entering the mine. If there are conflicting reports, and the government can choose which report it accepts as true, does that then allow any business to commission a H & S review and if that review ignores or omits a potential hazard, if the business adopts that report, they are immune from prosecution in the event of an accident?


 
 
 
 


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  # 1904684 20-Nov-2017 16:17
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rjt123:

 

The issue was that H & S laws (which have been heavily enforced across NZ for the last few years) require all risks to be mitigated to the point where there is no risk or potential for harm.

 

Unless the government can be absolutely certain there is no risk then they set a precedent by entering the mine. If there are conflicting reports, and the government can choose which report it accepts as true, does that then allow any business to commission a H & S review and if that review ignores or omits a potential hazard, if the business adopts that report, they are immune from prosecution in the event of an accident?

 

 

The last government said new legislation was needed to waive H&S risks, and it didnt have the numbers to get this through so chose to take the legal route and not proceed.


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  # 1904696 20-Nov-2017 16:58
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Pumpedd:

 

rjt123:

 

The issue was that H & S laws (which have been heavily enforced across NZ for the last few years) require all risks to be mitigated to the point where there is no risk or potential for harm.

 

Unless the government can be absolutely certain there is no risk then they set a precedent by entering the mine. If there are conflicting reports, and the government can choose which report it accepts as true, does that then allow any business to commission a H & S review and if that review ignores or omits a potential hazard, if the business adopts that report, they are immune from prosecution in the event of an accident?

 

 

The last government said new legislation was needed to waive H&S risks, and it didnt have the numbers to get this through so chose to take the legal route and not proceed.

 

 

And that's the problem, a non-political problem is politicised... why? if all parties agree that they should try and enter why would there not be numbers to pass the legislation?


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  # 1904705 20-Nov-2017 18:01
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rjt123:

 

Pumpedd:

 

rjt123:

 

The issue was that H & S laws (which have been heavily enforced across NZ for the last few years) require all risks to be mitigated to the point where there is no risk or potential for harm.

 

Unless the government can be absolutely certain there is no risk then they set a precedent by entering the mine. If there are conflicting reports, and the government can choose which report it accepts as true, does that then allow any business to commission a H & S review and if that review ignores or omits a potential hazard, if the business adopts that report, they are immune from prosecution in the event of an accident?

 

 

The last government said new legislation was needed to waive H&S risks, and it didnt have the numbers to get this through so chose to take the legal route and not proceed.

 

 

And that's the problem, a non-political problem is politicised... why? if all parties agree that they should try and enter why would there not be numbers to pass the legislation?

 

 

They have announced a new Govt Dept...what a total waste of money.


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  # 1904776 20-Nov-2017 19:29
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There's a real 'feel-good factor' about making a new govt department... even if they never do a thing at least they can say, "we've got department specially for thi...". Very positive.

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  # 1904828 20-Nov-2017 20:43
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Pumpedd:

 

rjt123:

 

Pumpedd:

 

rjt123:

 

The issue was that H & S laws (which have been heavily enforced across NZ for the last few years) require all risks to be mitigated to the point where there is no risk or potential for harm.

 

Unless the government can be absolutely certain there is no risk then they set a precedent by entering the mine. If there are conflicting reports, and the government can choose which report it accepts as true, does that then allow any business to commission a H & S review and if that review ignores or omits a potential hazard, if the business adopts that report, they are immune from prosecution in the event of an accident?

 

 

The last government said new legislation was needed to waive H&S risks, and it didnt have the numbers to get this through so chose to take the legal route and not proceed.

 

 

And that's the problem, a non-political problem is politicised... why? if all parties agree that they should try and enter why would there not be numbers to pass the legislation?

 

 

They have announced a new Govt Dept...what a total waste of money.

 

 

 

 

So this mine accident is going to end up costing more than the mine ever made when it was running... All to make 29 families "have closure"?

 

(do all 29 families want it?)

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sure homeless people will be impressed. I'm sure schools that can't afford supplies will be stoked.

 

I'm sure nurses and police that get paid sweet FA are lining up to help.

 

 

 

/sarcasm


 
 
 
 


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  # 1904836 20-Nov-2017 21:22
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Changing the subject... can anyone tell what politicians mean by homelessness? Is it people living on the street? Or what?

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  # 1904844 20-Nov-2017 21:35
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networkn:

Geektastic:


 


 


I sincerely hope they would resign AND be held legally liable for what I regard as a complete waste of money and unnecessary risk to life. What is the point of risking life to recover the dead? Surely the ultimate expression of pointless endeavour.



I am completely certain no-one in Labour would have the class to resign and no chance of them being held accountable. I'll donate $100 for each event to a charity of your choosing if it happens. 


 



I agree!

I think your money is safe though.





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  # 1904846 20-Nov-2017 21:40
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Regardless, it would be the best money I would have spent all year! 


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  # 1904848 20-Nov-2017 21:50
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Geektastic:
networkn:

 

Geektastic:

 

I sincerely hope they would resign AND be held legally liable for what I regard as a complete waste of money and unnecessary risk to life. What is the point of risking life to recover the dead? Surely the ultimate expression of pointless endeavour.

 

 

I am completely certain no-one in Labour would have the class to resign and no chance of them being held accountable. I'll donate $100 for each event to a charity of your choosing if it happens. 

 

 

I agree!

I think your money is safe though.

 

I think so too. Would National MP's resign? Take getting elected, get a mandate based on policy and out of the blue up goes GST. Only a minor change to 15%.... Housing crisis, oh there isn't one, watch debate 2. Again only minor. 


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  # 1904851 20-Nov-2017 21:56
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There is a difference between raising GST and potentially killing people. Governments should be risk adverse. 

 

How do you think NZ would have fared without the GST hike, in recent years? Labour would have no money to burn! 

 

It's not about National. Labour said they were "better" and I have seen zero evidence of that. Labour has done nothing to housing yet, and the housing market is cooling. I am sure they will claim credit though. Aunty Helen sure loved to claim credit where it wasn't due. 

 

 


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  # 1904955 21-Nov-2017 07:05
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What is the danger? Here, it seems like a bomb waiting to explode, but it isnt. For years many workers were in the mine, with running machinery and it was fine. From what I gather there was an issue with venting gas and there was an ignition. On the surface its fix the venting issue, and in this case extract the gas exactly as was done when the mine was in active use. What happened was a combination of one thing going wrong. If it was safe for years to have 30 people in it with machinery, it doesnt seem a stretch to fix the issue and get it back to the safe environment that it always was. Its not a mine that exploded every 5 months


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  # 1905006 21-Nov-2017 09:45
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The mine shaft could collapse. There are chemicals and gases in the mine which would need to be vented out. There was a guy on National Radio today talking about a cost of about $7M (So imagine twice that) to reinstate what is required to even get started. He himself said it's complex and has risk. He is an advocate for re-entry (presumably financially so).

 

It's impossible to imagine this happening for under $10M which is a gross mis-use of public funds to recover corpses. On top of that, imagine at least a million for a memorial. 

 

 


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  # 1905011 21-Nov-2017 09:54
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I see Jacinda has loose lips and now regrets sharing her anecdote about Trump mistaking her for Tredaeus wife. How classy of her to mock the leader of the free world, regardless of what a muppet he himself can he. Hardly likely to improve relations. Perhaps Ms Adern could use some lessons on Diplomacy along with Staff Management and general leadership. 

 

Jack Tame got ridden hard yesterday, but as one of the articles about it mentioned, it wouldn't have even been an issue if he had interviewed Key, English or Robertson.

 

She obviously regrets her indiscretion as well she should. 

 

 


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