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  Reply # 1914180 7-Dec-2017 00:33
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tdgeek:

 

Geektastic:
networkn:

 

I see Andrew Little is saying he won't be liable if something goes wrong with the Pike Re-Entry. Classy. Way to stand by your convictions. Like he always was, just all talk.

 



It’s always easy to talk a good game from the Opposition benches. Much harder once the rubber hits the road and Mr Reality comes to tea.

 

For this topic I agree. IMHO it was a vote catcher.

 

However, the "Much harder once the rubber hits the road and Mr Reality comes to tea"  that actually cuts both ways. I see we have one million people exposed to unsafe drinking water. Price gouging with fuel is front page news. That is two examples where the Govt of the day owned those issues, and are now exposed to that. Just as its easy to oppose, it is easy to get busted as well. 

 

 

 

 

The water thing is a result of what happens when you break up something that should be dealt with nationally, with consistent application of rules and standards by specialists and hand the responsibility to lowest common denominator numpties in councils.

 

I worked for a water company for 5 years that supplies the equivalent of 50% of the NZ population and their most up to date  drinking water quality figures I could find were as follows: 2012 was 99.96%, as it was in 2011, 2010, 2009 and 2007. In 2008 it was 99.98%

 

 

 

We need one company, New Zealand Water, broken into two divisions North Island and South Island. Then remove all responsibility for water and sewerage from councils and let them get on with rubbish collection or whatever else they do. Make the new company a Crown Entity so that the money we pay for water and sewage goes back to the government.






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  Reply # 1914252 7-Dec-2017 07:06
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Geektastic:

 

tdgeek:

 

Geektastic:
networkn:

 

I see Andrew Little is saying he won't be liable if something goes wrong with the Pike Re-Entry. Classy. Way to stand by your convictions. Like he always was, just all talk.

 



It’s always easy to talk a good game from the Opposition benches. Much harder once the rubber hits the road and Mr Reality comes to tea.

 

For this topic I agree. IMHO it was a vote catcher.

 

However, the "Much harder once the rubber hits the road and Mr Reality comes to tea"  that actually cuts both ways. I see we have one million people exposed to unsafe drinking water. Price gouging with fuel is front page news. That is two examples where the Govt of the day owned those issues, and are now exposed to that. Just as its easy to oppose, it is easy to get busted as well. 

 

 

 

 

The water thing is a result of what happens when you break up something that should be dealt with nationally, with consistent application of rules and standards by specialists and hand the responsibility to lowest common denominator numpties in councils.

 

I worked for a water company for 5 years that supplies the equivalent of 50% of the NZ population and their most up to date  drinking water quality figures I could find were as follows: 2012 was 99.96%, as it was in 2011, 2010, 2009 and 2007. In 2008 it was 99.98%

 

 

 

We need one company, New Zealand Water, broken into two divisions North Island and South Island. Then remove all responsibility for water and sewerage from councils and let them get on with rubbish collection or whatever else they do. Make the new company a Crown Entity so that the money we pay for water and sewage goes back to the government.

 

 

Good ideas. It makes sense for the councils still to physically manage water as its there locally, but a standard of national rules.


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  Reply # 1914363 7-Dec-2017 09:03
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No I don't think that's a good idea. State Owned ventures like this are generally inefficient. Also, there is no reason that the council's can't manage water competently, they just need to have guidelines and standards and if there is a perceived issue (as there is now) then the central government could set up a watchdog to monitor and hold council's to account. A government department/company would have those same numpties working under the specialists. The effectiveness of any company, govt owned or private, is subject to effective management: management who can inspire and ensure accountability.

At the end of the day issues like this come down to accountability. With a lack of accountability come's sloppiness. There will be enough increase in central government staff, services etc. under this new government without adding water to it

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  Reply # 1914473 7-Dec-2017 11:02
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http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11954555

 

Not exactly critical of Labour, but at least giving credit where it's due. 

 

I am sure Labour supporters will be blaming National for all the water issues as well, with the usual one-eyed view. 

 

I was listening to one of the ministers from Labour being interviewed on RNZ Tuesday night. He sounded positive and upbeat but just could not HELP himself in passive-aggressive barbs every few sentences at National. Relentless Positivity only goes so far, not really relentless.

 

Was talking to someone from inside the fringes of the Labour camp the other day, JA has been given a talking to internally, about overpromising and under delivering. I expect to see a pared back first 100 days program as a result. 


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  Reply # 1914482 7-Dec-2017 11:17
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networkn:

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11954555

 

Not exactly critical of Labour, but at least giving credit where it's due. 

 

I am sure Labour supporters will be blaming National for all the water issues as well, with the usual one-eyed view. 

 

I was listening to one of the ministers from Labour being interviewed on RNZ Tuesday night. He sounded positive and upbeat but just could not HELP himself in passive-aggressive barbs every few sentences at National. Relentless Positivity only goes so far, not really relentless.

 

Was talking to someone from inside the fringes of the Labour camp the other day, JA has been given a talking to internally, about overpromising and under delivering. I expect to see a pared back first 100 days program as a result. 

 

 

 

 

Isnt there a mini budget next week?

 

Considering all their election promises I am a little disappointed with their priorities and that students soaked up most of the available cash first. Things that really matter and were promised over and over will not be funded until next financial year such as cheaper doctor visits, which would have really helped the poorer among us. Also looks like medicinal cannabis has been shoved back to being too hard despite Jacindas desperate promises. It seems to me that which ever Minister got their act together first got first grab of the bank.

 

As far as the nzherald article that is quite true, but I also remember National doing the same thing when they first took power...in fact it went on for some time. Politics is politics afterall.


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  Reply # 1914487 7-Dec-2017 11:26
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rjt123:
No I don't think that's a good idea. State Owned ventures like this are generally inefficient. Also, there is no reason that the council's can't manage water competently, they just need to have guidelines and standards and if there is a perceived issue (as there is now) then the central government could set up a watchdog to monitor and hold council's to account. A government department/company would have those same numpties working under the specialists. The effectiveness of any company, govt owned or private, is subject to effective management: management who can inspire and ensure accountability.

At the end of the day issues like this come down to accountability. With a lack of accountability come's sloppiness. There will be enough increase in central government staff, services etc. under this new government without adding water to it

 

 

 

Fine, the SOE thing was a sop to the more left leaning. If you want it done properly, make it the responsibility of a (properly) regulated private company would have been my first choice.

 

 

 

A national approach, developing a national water storage and distribution network, is seriously required. We spent all winter drowning in floods and rain and now all manner of councils are imposing hosepipe bans etc - it's a shambles, even ignoring the fact that 700,000+ people are at risk of drinking unsafe water.






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  Reply # 1914529 7-Dec-2017 12:09
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Agreed. Ridiculous that NZ should ever have water restrictions. I,'d like to see a bi-partisan overhaul of the RMA like national were proposing to make public necessities like water storage (and critical infrastructure etc) able to be progressed faster.

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  Reply # 1914559 7-Dec-2017 12:42
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networkn:

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11954555

 

Not exactly critical of Labour, but at least giving credit where it's due. 

 

I am sure Labour supporters will be blaming National for all the water issues as well, with the usual one-eyed view. 

 

I was listening to one of the ministers from Labour being interviewed on RNZ Tuesday night. He sounded positive and upbeat but just could not HELP himself in passive-aggressive barbs every few sentences at National. Relentless Positivity only goes so far, not really relentless.

 

Was talking to someone from inside the fringes of the Labour camp the other day, JA has been given a talking to internally, about overpromising and under delivering. I expect to see a pared back first 100 days program as a result. 

 

 

Do you honestly not see that this is precisely what you are doing? Your first statement that I bolded is just another unsubstantiated barb that contributes nothing. How can you be sure that Labour supporters will be blaming National for all water issues? On what data do you base this very prejudicial opinion? What do you mean by the 'usual one-eyed view'? This is just more mud-slinging without any actual basis. Do you have proof that all Labour supporters will blame National? That they all have a one-eyed view? Of course this is your opinion and you have every right to express it, but you are doing exactly what you claim those you disapprove of are doing. If that Labour Minister just could not help himself from issuing passive-aggressive barbs every few sentences, neither can you. You have been doing this from the very beginning of this thread and many others. You are right-wing, you don't like the left, and you have a very hard time seeing anything good in anything the left does. Again, fair enough. You have a right to your opinion. But don't pretend you are any more objective than those terrible lefties you so strongly disapprove of.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1914587 7-Dec-2017 13:47
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Rikkitic:

 

networkn:

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11954555

 

Not exactly critical of Labour, but at least giving credit where it's due. 

 

I am sure Labour supporters will be blaming National for all the water issues as well, with the usual one-eyed view. 

 

I was listening to one of the ministers from Labour being interviewed on RNZ Tuesday night. He sounded positive and upbeat but just could not HELP himself in passive-aggressive barbs every few sentences at National. Relentless Positivity only goes so far, not really relentless.

 

Was talking to someone from inside the fringes of the Labour camp the other day, JA has been given a talking to internally, about overpromising and under delivering. I expect to see a pared back first 100 days program as a result. 

 

 

Do you honestly not see that this is precisely what you are doing? Your first statement that I bolded is just another unsubstantiated barb that contributes nothing. How can you be sure that Labour supporters will be blaming National for all water issues? On what data do you base this very prejudicial opinion? What do you mean by the 'usual one-eyed view'? This is just more mud-slinging without any actual basis. Do you have proof that all Labour supporters will blame National? That they all have a one-eyed view? Of course this is your opinion and you have every right to express it, but you are doing exactly what you claim those you disapprove of are doing. If that Labour Minister just could not help himself from issuing passive-aggressive barbs every few sentences, neither can you. You have been doing this from the very beginning of this thread and many others. You are right-wing, you don't like the left, and you have a very hard time seeing anything good in anything the left does. Again, fair enough. You have a right to your opinion. But don't pretend you are any more objective than those terrible lefties you so strongly disapprove of.

 

 

 

 

I agree, I was a bit shocked to read that actually. It makes perfect sense for everyone to bag the other side, but if I was able to grade all of us here, the Nats side would be clear winners based on frequency and depth of the bagging, by a very wide margin. 

 

Re the Herald article, Labs will bag Nats for leaving a mess. Thats always been the case. Nats will bag Labs for leaving a mess, thats always the case. The smart money will see past all that, and filter the reality. Nats have left a few things a mess, or done nothing, same result. They have also done things that have benefited NZ. I expect the new Govt, will do good things, and also do things that were not a good idea. That will happen with any Govt. 

 

But threads like this just become a venting area, nothing more. A bags B, thats ok. B bags A, hey what the???? You cant do that. Thats what this thread is.

 

Discussion isn't really possible, as the undertone is 95% bagging, covered up by words that intimate thats "not really" the case. But it is!  

 

Ive been busy, posted in other threads didnt even read this one, but was a hoot to catch up. Its become a bit silly, but its a political thread, tough at the best of times.


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  Reply # 1914591 7-Dec-2017 13:55
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Sometimes I feel we should treat them the same way I suggest you treat bullies. If you ignore them they will give up. I am sure most sensible forum commentators want what's best for OUR Country regardless of their political leanings.


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  Reply # 1914658 7-Dec-2017 15:00
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Rikkitic:

 

networkn:

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11954555

 

Not exactly critical of Labour, but at least giving credit where it's due. 

 

I am sure Labour supporters will be blaming National for all the water issues as well, with the usual one-eyed view. 

 

I was listening to one of the ministers from Labour being interviewed on RNZ Tuesday night. He sounded positive and upbeat but just could not HELP himself in passive-aggressive barbs every few sentences at National. Relentless Positivity only goes so far, not really relentless.

 

Was talking to someone from inside the fringes of the Labour camp the other day, JA has been given a talking to internally, about overpromising and under delivering. I expect to see a pared back first 100 days program as a result. 

 

 

Do you honestly not see that this is precisely what you are doing? Your first statement that I bolded is just another unsubstantiated barb that contributes nothing. How can you be sure that Labour supporters will be blaming National for all water issues? On what data do you base this very prejudicial opinion? What do you mean by the 'usual one-eyed view'? This is just more mud-slinging without any actual basis. Do you have proof that all Labour supporters will blame National? That they all have a one-eyed view? Of course this is your opinion and you have every right to express it, but you are doing exactly what you claim those you disapprove of are doing. If that Labour Minister just could not help himself from issuing passive-aggressive barbs every few sentences, neither can you. You have been doing this from the very beginning of this thread and many others. You are right-wing, you don't like the left, and you have a very hard time seeing anything good in anything the left does. Again, fair enough. You have a right to your opinion. But don't pretend you are any more objective than those terrible lefties you so strongly disapprove of.

 

 

 

 

It's hardly unsubstantiated. Open almost any news website, listen to Campbell live, watch parliamentary TV, all Labour (and it's supporters) has done is blame National for the state of the country. During the other threads leading up to the election, it was rife. People seem to fail to understand the country wasn't perfect when National took over, and whilst some things didn't improve whilst under National, and there were some failings, under incredibly challenging circumstances the country could have been much much worse off. 

 

I don't care the name of the party who is power, I care what they do and what they achieve. I have seen *nothing* to indicate that Labour is going to improve things. I don't consider bribing students with free educations with no stops and balances and checks, to be an improvement, I see it as a lolly scramble. 100,000 houses? How? Increased Transparency? First chance they get, they are fighting the release of documents about their coalition agreement. 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1914716 7-Dec-2017 16:10
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networkn:

sen8or:


Geektastic:
rjt123:


Winston first in...? Perhaps the worst lie ever from him.




I’ve got a torch he can borrow....


 


A torch, thats generous, I thought a candle would suffice.....



That's generous, I was going to send him in with no light!


 



I suppose he could always bend over and hop backwards....plenty of light shining from his....





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  Reply # 1915622 9-Dec-2017 12:04
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It could just be me, but I find it totally hypocritical that she has time in the first 100 days to do photo shoots for Vogue, when according to her things in NZ are in such a bad way. So sad....


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  Reply # 1915645 9-Dec-2017 12:57
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Like the thread title says, she is PM. Get over it.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1915653 9-Dec-2017 13:23
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Rikkitic:

Like the thread title says, she is PM. Get over it.


 


That means it's her job to rui err I mean run the country not pose for magazines. Surely she could find something more productive to do with her time (or maybe not)

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