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  Reply # 1890972 26-Oct-2017 19:55
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sen8or:

 

 

 

Ofcourse there are bigger issues at play, but those that wait for a Government to lift them out of poverty will wait an eternity, its not a Governments responsibility, its their own, a basic fact that escapes many

 

 

I agree. But if you want to label those on a benefit as all capable of lifting themselves out, thats a bit sad. While there will always be bludgers, there are also bludgers at the rich end. Earnings heaps and paying no tax, aka a contribution to running this country. I bypass one poster here who hates kids and hates beneficiaries


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  Reply # 1890975 26-Oct-2017 20:00
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rugrat: No tax cuts, but low getting wage rises wouldn't have got under National.

For ones not getting wage rises how much difference would $20 a week make to their lives anyway.

I was on ME tax rate which National was going to scrap, so after tax cut would've got less then $1 tax cut a week.

Glad the way it worked out.

People cabable of working should be working, but be paid fairly.

The text below is from

https://thepolicyobservatory.aut.ac.nz/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/75928/Bill-Rosenberg-on-NZs-productivity-paradox-v3.pdf

. It was not intended to be low-value; but that was an evitable outcome because the faith in the ‘free market’ providing all solutions was recklessly misplaced. It produced a result that failed in its purpose of increasing the economic growth rate, but instead succeeded in increasing inequality – it redistributed to the rich and wealthy much more effectively than it changed economic performance.

 

Yes.

 

Im not sure if the low paid are hard done by. Has the minimum wages kept pace with everything else? Im not sure. If it hasn't, the employers have had a gain. Its just catchup. Then, they still had a gain. 


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1890982 26-Oct-2017 20:15
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Batman:

 

 THe reality is, Helen Clark the 2nd has managed to get herself in power, thanks in some part to a select few of National's policies. That's the country we have now, and if Labour and Greens have their way for a few more terms, we are heading left.

 

 

We are heading central, where we already are. More social policy, and less let the market decide. If we were big enough and diverse enough, and had an average dependence on global matters, neo liberalism worked be quite ok. But we are way too small. We need to pick out what doesnt work and manage that


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  Reply # 1890983 26-Oct-2017 20:15
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networkn:


Care to explain why?



 


Did you need to quote 3/4 of a page of text to reply with 4 words?



I'll quote this one as it's shorter and too fiddly on the mobile to cut longer ones.

Simply because I prefer a system where the strong prevail and the weak perish, figuratively.

I think it encourages hard work and success.

On a wider note I feel that the world is probably already overpopulated and that persisting with societal systems that will simply ignore that by trying really hard to keep every human being in good health and so on will, ultimately, backfire.

I think society needs to harden up a bit rather than the reverse.





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  Reply # 1890986 26-Oct-2017 20:18
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mattwnz:

 

elpenguino:

 

if your business relies on extremely low paid workers to remain solvent, you don't have much of a business going on.

 

If your workers have to receive taxpayer top ups to survive, your business is being subsidised by the taxpayer.

 

 

 

 

It is likely they will just employ less staff, and get those staff to do more work. Wages have to be paid by someone. Increasing minimum wages potentially increases inflation, which means interest rates rise. This means people will be paying more to service their mortgage. Any changes often have knock on effects.

 

 

Costs rise everywhere. I think the number of low paid jibs is relatively low. But I go back to my point, has minimum wage kept pace? Or has it slipped behind? You cant just look at %, you need to look at PDI. If minimum wages has zero PDI, does it now, or is to negative or positive?


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  Reply # 1890993 26-Oct-2017 20:24
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wsnz:

 

tdgeek:

 

Dingbatt:
PhantomNVD: I think them agreeing to be accountable is the one thing politicians will all agree NOT to do!


Peters has already stated (in his coalition announcement) that what ever happens, it's not his fault.

 

The economist who predicted a global down turn said it wasnt the fault of whatever Govt was in power. Im unsure why that is always left out...

 

 

 

 

The GFC wasn't Labour's fault, but then neither was the period of massive economic expansion that preceded it. You can't take credit for one, but not the other and that goes for any government.

 

 

 

What most concerns me is Winston talking down the economy before even officially taking power, that's not a good move and  Winston knows better than that. The words of politicians have profound effects on the market and consequently the fortunes of the citizens. 

 

 

I dont agree. If I was the new PM, and there was a trend or feeling from unbiased sources of a global downturn, I dont want that pasted onto my back. I will take the hit for what I did wrong but not for what I didnt. Or look at Joyce? Thing about the hole that no one believed, except for people he knew, and never named. Its still going on. JA got hammered for no detail, I agree fully. Joyce is doing that now re this magical hole. Its POOR opposition. Deal with facts not fake news, and its a bit sad that it is fake news. I dint need to know its xxxx.xxxxx million, but if its real, some detail please and not attacks. 


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  Reply # 1890999 26-Oct-2017 20:28
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Geektastic:
networkn:

 

 

 

 

Care to explain why?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Did you need to quote 3/4 of a page of text to reply with 4 words?

 



I'll quote this one as it's shorter and too fiddly on the mobile to cut longer ones.

Simply because I prefer a system where the strong prevail and the weak perish, figuratively.

I think it encourages hard work and success.

On a wider note I feel that the world is probably already overpopulated and that persisting with societal systems that will simply ignore that by trying really hard to keep every human being in good health and so on will, ultimately, backfire.

I think society needs to harden up a bit rather than the reverse.

 

I dont disagree, but you repeatedly treat the poor as their own fault. Many here are very comfortable, and I hate bludgers, but I also see those who just cannot get past being poor.  


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  Reply # 1891001 26-Oct-2017 20:34
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Geektastic:
Shutting the economy down for 2 or 3 weeks every Christmas is also a pretty outdated concept and deleterious to productivity.

 

 

 

So nobody has summer holidays in the Northern Hemisphere?

 

I call BS.

 

Even Cliff sung about it.

 

 

 

Edit: I think you'll also find 95% of shops and all supermarkets are open if you want to spend money to keep the economy going.


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  Reply # 1891007 26-Oct-2017 20:44
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

I dont agree. If I was the new PM, and there was a trend or feeling from unbiased sources of a global downturn, I dont want that pasted onto my back. 

 

 

I would certainly hope that such judgements were made based on more objective measures than the "feeling from unbiased sources". Winston's evidence to back up his position is not surprisingly, missing.

 

But anyway, this isn't about protecting the ego of an individual politician or scoring perceived political points though, this is about protecting and advancing the nation. People in positions of power or influence need to be very careful about what is said or done as it can negatively influence the economy in very profound ways.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1891013 26-Oct-2017 20:50
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wsnz:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

I dont agree. If I was the new PM, and there was a trend or feeling from unbiased sources of a global downturn, I dont want that pasted onto my back. 

 

 

I would certainly hope that such judgements were made based on more objective measures than the "feeling from unbiased sources". Winston's evidence to back up his position is not surprisingly, missing.

 

But anyway, this isn't about protecting the ego of an individual politician or scoring perceived political points though, this is about protecting and advancing the nation. People in positions of power or influence need to be very careful about what is said or done as it can negatively influence the economy in very profound ways.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My error. It wasnt a feeling, it was an economist who was on a radio talkback show. Its no secret, except for those that want to paint Peters as making stuff up. Ask the economist, whose public words seem to be an inconvenient truth. he sees a possible global downturn, and it would not matter who in NZ was in Govt. Thats what he said, but you wont read that from the media or others.


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  Reply # 1891048 26-Oct-2017 22:20
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Geektastic:
elpenguino:

 

Of course they have knock on effects - the economy is a money go round. On the other hand, those workers (and everyone else) will be paying lower taxes because they are not subsidising those under paid workers. Are you in favour of lower taxes?

 

You can't get those workers to do more work because the capacity of a human is limited - unless you invest in your business and increase productivity.

 

What we have seen in NZ is business owners rely on cheap labour to make their businesses viable - instead of investing to increase productivity.

 



Productivity is also driven by how productive a worker is.

The more breaks, leaning on shovels, playing on social media etc etc a worker does, the lower productivity will be.

For example, when I first moved here I was astonished to find office staff actually knocking off for morning and afternoon tea, something that I had never come across in nearly 20 years working in professional services overseas.

Shutting the economy down for 2 or 3 weeks every Christmas is also a pretty outdated concept and deleterious to productivity.

It's not just about investing money - and, indeed, the sort of productivity gains obtained by spending money are as likely to result in reduced staff levels as a result of automation as anything else.

 

But i gather from your other posts you came from the uk where the pub lunch is a national past time.

 

I think you are coming with the mindset of 'work harder' when as a nation we need to be thinking how to 'work smarter'. When workers are helped by technology, output goes up.

 

If you want drones who perform the bare minimum, make sure you hover over their shoulders and scold them for checking facetwit.

 

We have found at work that a group morning tea is good team bonding time - you don't have to be a psychologist to figure out why. Nevertheless, NZ is falling behind those we like to compare ourselves against.

 

https://croakingcassandra.com/2016/06/20/some-snippets-on-new-zealands-continuing-economic-underperformance/

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1891105 27-Oct-2017 04:57
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elpenguino:

 

Geektastic:

Productivity is also driven by how productive a worker is.

The more breaks, leaning on shovels, playing on social media etc etc a worker does, the lower productivity will be.

For example, when I first moved here I was astonished to find office staff actually knocking off for morning and afternoon tea, something that I had never come across in nearly 20 years working in professional services overseas.

Shutting the economy down for 2 or 3 weeks every Christmas is also a pretty outdated concept and deleterious to productivity.

It's not just about investing money - and, indeed, the sort of productivity gains obtained by spending money are as likely to result in reduced staff levels as a result of automation as anything else.

 

But i gather from your other posts you came from the uk where the pub lunch is a national past time.

 

I think you are coming with the mindset of 'work harder' when as a nation we need to be thinking how to 'work smarter'. When workers are helped by technology, output goes up.

 

If you want drones who perform the bare minimum, make sure you hover over their shoulders and scold them for checking facetwit.

 

We have found at work that a group morning tea is good team bonding time - you don't have to be a psychologist to figure out why. Nevertheless, NZ is falling behind those we like to compare ourselves against.

 

https://croakingcassandra.com/2016/06/20/some-snippets-on-new-zealands-continuing-economic-underperformance/

 

 

You nailed it.

 

Many forward thinking successful companies are embracing 'work smarter' concepts and reaping the rewards. They don't bother to monitor internet usage, they don't time breaks and they certainly don't lurk around looking for opportunities to get an extra 15 minutes of work out of people. Some people you will never convince, they are stuck in 1982 with ironic nicknames, if they were a company we'd call them the Yellow Pages. And... they're slowly being phased out of society. They are generally cantankerous, self centered and completely irrelevant.

 

Hard work is healthy though, I work my gardens like a fiend, I paint fences and maintain my properties. I have a huge to-do list of tasks to complete after work and weekends. As I cross items off, I sit down with my wife and fill that list back up again. I love it. But in my professional life I adapt and learn constantly and improve processes, I look for business opportunities and we collaborate, discuss and plan. The culture has adapted and grown. It's why we succeed and much of our competition is failing, in slow motion. They have internet monitoring, they have dozens of middle managers that watch staff like hawks ... some of them are former work colleagues, it's frustrating to talk to them and see them complain about work hours, no pay rises, company losing ground and then completely dismiss the solution.

 

I am not sure if Jacinda has harnessed work smarter concepts, she is certainly young and smart. I didn't vote for her, but I hope her arrival into a position of prominence will bring in a lot more people in her age group to lead this country in all of our political parties. We need to push harder on phasing out the tired old brains.


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  Reply # 1891129 27-Oct-2017 08:40
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networkn:

 

I can't look, she is being sworn in :(

 

And in a new low in NZ reporting, apparently, her deserves headlines. /facepalm

 

 

 

 

I almost vomited when she said to last year high school students "Next year is on US". When in fact its on the NZ taxpayer....

 

The list of major spending projects is growing by the hour. All these fresh ministers want to spend masses of cash when they dont have any. They will need lots of new income from somewhere......


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  Reply # 1891453 27-Oct-2017 17:11
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tdgeek:

Geektastic:
networkn:



 


Care to explain why?


 



 


 


 


Did you need to quote 3/4 of a page of text to reply with 4 words?




I'll quote this one as it's shorter and too fiddly on the mobile to cut longer ones.

Simply because I prefer a system where the strong prevail and the weak perish, figuratively.

I think it encourages hard work and success.

On a wider note I feel that the world is probably already overpopulated and that persisting with societal systems that will simply ignore that by trying really hard to keep every human being in good health and so on will, ultimately, backfire.

I think society needs to harden up a bit rather than the reverse.


I dont disagree, but you repeatedly treat the poor as their own fault. Many here are very comfortable, and I hate bludgers, but I also see those who just cannot get past being poor.  



That's fine. I accept that there are poor people. Because I accept it, I do not feel a need to try and change it, other than by giving those affected the opportunity to better themselves via things such as education.





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  Reply # 1892122 29-Oct-2017 13:24
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/98261658/nadine-higgins-obsession-with-pms-looks-shows-we-havent-come-far

 

 I hope some of you who have made snide comments as well hang your heads in shame.


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