Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3
1274 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 263


  Reply # 1911038 30-Nov-2017 12:11
Send private message quote this post

Perhaps its time for NZ to wake up & stop pretending

 

Perhaps its time to re-evalute defence spending, for a small island of 4million people
Farming & tourism. NZ is not a rich country. Lets not try & keep up with the Jones on defense hardware




569 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 127


  Reply # 1911044 30-Nov-2017 12:15
Send private message quote this post

networkn:

 

You can make anything look bad if you take a wide enough angle on it. You have chosen to be very selective in your presentation of the "facts" (Choosing to believe there is only one side and one set of "facts". Your language and tone indicate your views are fairly anti-everything National (masters, buddies and the such), hence your intention to use what little information you have to paint them in a poor light. The reality is your facts are only presented in support of your side of the glass. If you applied a little logic instead of emotions, you'd see a different and more reasonable side to this. 

 

Take your tinfoil hat off, and stop with the emotive language and try having a discussion without all the angst, if you want your points to be taken seriously. 

 



FUG.


 
 
 
 


10294 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3175

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1911051 30-Nov-2017 12:21
Send private message quote this post

1101:

 

Perhaps its time for NZ to wake up & stop pretending

 

Perhaps its time to re-evalute defence spending, for a small island of 4million people
Farming & tourism. NZ is not a rich country. Lets not try & keep up with the Jones on defense hardware

 

 


Fairly confident we aren't very close to keeping up with many Joneses in that particular regard!

 

I do agree and have suggested before that we amalgamate the current forces and create the NZ Coast Guard in a similar vein to the US Coastguard. 






1353 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 694


  Reply # 1911508 1-Dec-2017 10:18
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

1101:

 

Perhaps its time for NZ to wake up & stop pretending

 

Perhaps its time to re-evalute defence spending, for a small island of 4million people
Farming & tourism. NZ is not a rich country. Lets not try & keep up with the Jones on defense hardware

 

 

We spend about 1% of GDP on defence - quite low compared to most developed countries.  Arguably we get reasonable "bang for buck" from this low level of expenditure - moves such as deleting the air combat capability ensured other more affordable areas could be funded.

 

It's important that we take reasonable steps to ensure we can protect our interests and make a fair contribution to international security.  I'd say 1% is the minimum to achieve this.


5239 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2473


  Reply # 1911521 1-Dec-2017 10:24
Send private message quote this post

shk292:

 

1101:

 

Perhaps its time for NZ to wake up & stop pretending

 

Perhaps its time to re-evalute defence spending, for a small island of 4million people
Farming & tourism. NZ is not a rich country. Lets not try & keep up with the Jones on defense hardware

 

 

We spend about 1% of GDP on defence - quite low compared to most developed countries.  Arguably we get reasonable "bang for buck" from this low level of expenditure - moves such as deleting the air combat capability ensured other more affordable areas could be funded.

 

It's important that we take reasonable steps to ensure we can protect our interests and make a fair contribution to international security.  I'd say 1% is the minimum to achieve this.

 

 

I propose that if the 1% is the minimum to achieve this, then let's call it the optimum.


1230 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 554


  Reply # 1911542 1-Dec-2017 10:43
Send private message quote this post

shk292:

 

1101:

 

Perhaps its time for NZ to wake up & stop pretending

 

Perhaps its time to re-evalute defence spending, for a small island of 4million people
Farming & tourism. NZ is not a rich country. Lets not try & keep up with the Jones on defense hardware

 

 

We spend about 1% of GDP on defence - quite low compared to most developed countries.  Arguably we get reasonable "bang for buck" from this low level of expenditure - moves such as deleting the air combat capability ensured other more affordable areas could be funded.

 

It's important that we take reasonable steps to ensure we can protect our interests and make a fair contribution to international security.  I'd say 1% is the minimum to achieve this.

 

 

Our Defence budget also aids in search and rescue, protection of our large fishing areas, civil defence and of course our commitments to peace keeping.

 

All this requires working and functional hardware which needs to be replaced from time to time. Get real guys...nothing lasts forever. The money spent on maintaining our old fleets must be horrendous. 

 

This money is really just maintenance and not really expending our annual defence operating spend. On top of the 1% operating also is needed capital for replacement. 


1353 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 694


  Reply # 1911548 1-Dec-2017 10:50
Send private message quote this post

Fred99:

 

I propose that if the 1% is the minimum to achieve this, then let's call it the optimum.

 

 

I'd say it's more complex than that - there are so many uncertainties we face as a nation.  It's all about the level of risk that is acceptable - both to the nation's interests and to the lives of those who choose to serve their nation.  For every cut in expenditure - eg on equipment renewal or training - there is a risk that because of that cut, capability will not be delivered or a failure will occur.  Equally, there is a risk that if we don't pull our weight in international security operations - as well as being morally wrong - that will damage relationships with our allies. But getting maximum capability for minimum expense is always a good thing.


11506 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5211

Trusted

  Reply # 1911558 1-Dec-2017 11:07
Send private message quote this post

There has ben a lot of bad decisions made on defence in the last few decades. Starting with the Kahu A4 Skyhawk project only to dump them as the project finished. The Pinzgauer  project that resulted in hopeless vehicles for the Army (exception the model purchased for the SAS). The LAV purchase, we did not need over 100 of these vehicles and a mixed purchase of wheeled and tracked ( Bradley's) would have been a better choice. The Purchase of Patrol Craft for the Navy that are unsuitable for our waters and cannot be put to sea. Anti aircraft systems that we cannot afford to use. The NH90 purchase has been a very expensive mistake and its short falls and issues were well documented before we signed the contract. These are just a few the list goes on...

 

The thought of the Defence force wasting billions more really concerns me.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


bmt

328 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 78


  Reply # 1912977 4-Dec-2017 21:18
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

The NH90s were an excellent buy and they are performing great.

 

I'll point out that the NZDF is not the same as the Ministry of Defence. MoD is responsible for procurement.

 

Those advocating for cuts in capability really just don't understand the reality of the world, geopolitics, etc etc. Most of it will simply be based on their own beliefs rather than genuine factual evidence to support their claims.


15315 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4035

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1912979 4-Dec-2017 21:20
Send private message quote this post

bmt:

 

The NH90s were an excellent buy and they are performing great.

 

I'll point out that the NZDF is not the same as the Ministry of Defence. MoD is responsible for procurement.

 

Those advocating for cuts in capability really just don't understand the reality of the world, geopolitics, etc etc. Most of it will simply be based on their own beliefs rather than genuine factual evidence to support their claims.

 

 

Are you in a better position to enlighten everyone then?


1353 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 694


  Reply # 1913108 5-Dec-2017 09:45
Send private message quote this post

networkn:

 

Are you in a better position to enlighten everyone then?

 

 

The Defence White Paper is a good place to start.  Have a read of that and post any questions


71 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 24


  Reply # 1913798 6-Dec-2017 11:14
Send private message quote this post

Quote:

 

1101: "Perhaps its time for NZ to wake up & stop pretending

 

 

Perhaps its time to re-evalute defence spending, for a small island of 4million people 
Farming & tourism. NZ is not a rich country. Lets not try & keep up with the Jones on defense hardware"

 

 

 

 

I don't know what planet you live on...? possibly the same as Helen Clark's when she said we live in an "incredibly benign strategic environment"

 

I agree that a small economy can't afford to spend a lot on defence, but to neglect defence spending and pin our safety on goodwill or neutrality is hardly a realistic strategy. If we want to piggy-back off a stronger defence force (like the USA) then we could remove the nuclear ship ban and let them station some of their pacific fleet in NZ - significant boost to the economy as well - could lease Ohakea airbase to them too...

 

 


3309 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1246


  Reply # 1919078 13-Dec-2017 14:43
Send private message quote this post

MaxLV:

 


Where is this '4 laning' plan. As far as I'm aware, National planned to '4 lane' the highway between Auckland and Whangarei, as part of the their 10 Billion 'Roads of National significance'. 
It's a good thing that's not going ahead, as it would have only added more huge trucks to the road,

 

 

Is the number of trucks controlled by the quality of roads? or by the demand for freight?  I would have thought the latter.  The inefficiency of rail no-doubt plays a role too. 

 

In any case, if roads are 4 lanes and sensible grades, trucks will less of a problem than they are now. 





Mike

6169 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2894

Subscriber

  Reply # 1919171 13-Dec-2017 16:43
Send private message quote this post

rjt123:

 

I agree that a small economy can't afford to spend a lot on defence, but to neglect defence spending and pin our safety on goodwill or neutrality is hardly a realistic strategy. If we want to piggy-back off a stronger defence force (like the USA) then we could remove the nuclear ship ban and let them station some of their pacific fleet in NZ - significant boost to the economy as well - could lease Ohakea airbase to them too...

 

 

 

 

Maybe we could just apply to become a US State. We already eat their crappy food and drink their cola. Why not let them take over our entire economy? We could lease the country to them too...





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


71 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 24


  Reply # 1919191 13-Dec-2017 17:03
Send private message quote this post

Rikkitic:

 

rjt123:

 

I agree that a small economy can't afford to spend a lot on defence, but to neglect defence spending and pin our safety on goodwill or neutrality is hardly a realistic strategy. If we want to piggy-back off a stronger defence force (like the USA) then we could remove the nuclear ship ban and let them station some of their pacific fleet in NZ - significant boost to the economy as well - could lease Ohakea airbase to them too...

 

 

 

 

Maybe we could just apply to become a US State. We already eat their crappy food and drink their cola. Why not let them take over our entire economy? We could lease the country to them too...

 

 

I guess their food quality is an opinion, I personally eat very little US food... that I'm aware of at any rate. Rather that than Chinese tbh (Think melamine scandal). And drinking cola is a lifestyle choice. Hardly relevant anyways. 

 

I don't know what part of "leasing" a small area of land or dock space constitutes a takeover or annexation, we are talking about US not Russia just btw. Subtle difference.

 

It's well understood that Immigration is a boost to the economy, in that they spend a lot of money, but obviously has it's drawbacks e.g. they take jobs, houses, add stress to healthcare services etc. Having another 10,000+ defense  personnel here spending the money but providing their own accomodation, jobs, healthcare etc. would be massive. Ant they could drink NZ brewed coca-cola.


1 | 2 | 3
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

New Zealand hits peak broadband data
Posted 18-Jan-2018 12:21


Amazon Echo devices coming to New Zealand early February 2018
Posted 18-Jan-2018 10:53


$3.74 million for new electric vehicles in New Zealand
Posted 17-Jan-2018 11:27


Nova 2i: Value, not excitement from Huawei
Posted 17-Jan-2018 09:02


Less news in Facebook News Feed revamp
Posted 15-Jan-2018 13:15


Australian Government contract awarded to Datacom Connect
Posted 11-Jan-2018 08:37


Why New Zealand needs a chief technology officer
Posted 6-Jan-2018 13:59


Amazon release Silk Browser and Firefox for Fire TV
Posted 21-Dec-2017 13:42


New Chief Technology Officer role created
Posted 19-Dec-2017 22:18


All I want for Christmas is a new EV
Posted 19-Dec-2017 19:54


How clever is this: AI will create 2.3 million jobs by 2020
Posted 19-Dec-2017 19:52


NOW to deploy SD-WAN to regional councils
Posted 19-Dec-2017 19:46


Mobile market competition issues ComCom should watch
Posted 18-Dec-2017 10:52


New Zealand government to create digital advisory group
Posted 16-Dec-2017 08:47


Australia datum changes means whole country moving 1.8 metres north-east
Posted 16-Dec-2017 08:39



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.