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  Reply # 1956771 14-Feb-2018 09:31
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Rikkitic:

 

As in, they were so primitive and backward until the wonderful Europeans came along with their advanced civilisation. That is indeed gibbering nonsense.

 

 

 

 

I'm really not convinced that it's such nonsense.  Consider pre-colonial Ngapuhi's own description of themselves as a people in 1831 when they were petitioning the British Crown to come to NZ and protect them.

 

We are a people without possessions.

 

We have nothing but timber, flax, pork and potatoes

 

Acknowledged -  the use of "stone aged" to describe a level of advancement of a civilisation instead of a time in history is technically incorrect.  But this is an account of a group of people who have immediately grasped that there is a significant gap between themselves and their visitors.  (Both the British, as well as French and others)

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1956811 14-Feb-2018 09:55
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That petition strikes me as an understandable desperation tactic by people who know they cannot defend themselves and are looking for help anywhere they can find it and see the British as the lesser of evils. They are simply trying to make the best deal they can, and who can blame them for that? I don't really see this as evidence of anything in terms of Maori society. The arrival of the Europeans had an enormous disruptive effect, especially when they started handing out muskets. As has been pointed out above, Europeans need to be careful about making pronouncements regarding other societies in view of their own violent and brutal history.

 

 

 

  





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1957105 14-Feb-2018 14:47
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It also more or less says: Protect us from abuses by your subjects, lest we kick the sealed out of them ourselves!





Mike



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  Reply # 1964890 27-Feb-2018 09:13
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When Microsoft decided to foist Windows 8 upon its millions of loyal users people fought back by using Classic Shell and similar to make the O.S. less awful.    When Ubuntu moved to Unity people fought back by adapting to Unity or going to Linux Mint.   Unfortunately RNZ, & particularly Espiner, are going down the same path.

 

Here is a good work-around for those of you who are totally fed up with Espiner's *excessive* use of Maori on RNZ.    My tip is whenever he begins to speak is to make a loud humming noise, or to say a word such as 'Francais' over and over.   I have discovered that after the first few seconds he reverts to speaking in English.   Unfortunately, this tip is less effective when he insists on doing the multi-lingual weather forecast.   

 

 


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  Reply # 1964909 27-Feb-2018 09:50
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amiga500:

 

When Microsoft decided to foist Windows 8 upon its millions of loyal users people fought back by using Classic Shell and similar to make the O.S. less awful.    When Ubuntu moved to Unity people fought back by adapting to Unity or going to Linux Mint.   Unfortunately RNZ, & particularly Espiner, are going down the same path.

 

Here is a good work-around for those of you who are totally fed up with Espiner's *excessive* use of Maori on RNZ.    My tip is whenever he begins to speak is to make a loud humming noise, or to say a word such as 'Francais' over and over.   I have discovered that after the first few seconds he reverts to speaking in English.   Unfortunately, this tip is less effective when he insists on doing the multi-lingual weather forecast.   

 

 

On the other side of the coin, RNZ today reported that Unitech are unable to meet the increased demand for students wanting to learn Te Reo. Cultural/generational change underway, perhaps?


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  Reply # 1965040 27-Feb-2018 12:45
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dafman:

 

On the other side of the coin, RNZ today reported that Unitech are unable to meet the increased demand for students wanting to learn Te Reo. Cultural/generational change underway, perhaps?

 

 

Or possibly there is simply a new influx of students who previously would not have considered Tertiary Education, but who now are looking to capitalise (Ssshh!  It's a failed experiment, remember ;-) on free courses and inflated student allowances.  Possibly this new cohort are ill-equipped to pursue degrees in STEM subjects, or more general tertiary studies and are looking instead for courses that are better suited to their academic prowess?

 

Nah...   that would never be the case.


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  Reply # 1965048 27-Feb-2018 13:08
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6FIEND:

 

dafman:

 

On the other side of the coin, RNZ today reported that Unitech are unable to meet the increased demand for students wanting to learn Te Reo. Cultural/generational change underway, perhaps?

 

 

Or possibly there is simply a new influx of students who previously would not have considered Tertiary Education, but who now are looking to capitalise (Ssshh!  It's a failed experiment, remember ;-) on free courses and inflated student allowances.  Possibly this new cohort are ill-equipped to pursue degrees in STEM subjects, or more general tertiary studies and are looking instead for courses that are better suited to their academic prowess?

 

Nah...   that would never be the case.

 

 

Yeah, but thank god I don't live in a community solely populated by STEM graduates.


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  Reply # 1965049 27-Feb-2018 13:08
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6FIEND:

 

dafman:

 

On the other side of the coin, RNZ today reported that Unitech are unable to meet the increased demand for students wanting to learn Te Reo. Cultural/generational change underway, perhaps?

 

 

Or possibly there is simply a new influx of students who previously would not have considered Tertiary Education, but who now are looking to capitalise (Ssshh!  It's a failed experiment, remember ;-) on free courses and inflated student allowances.  Possibly this new cohort are ill-equipped to pursue degrees in STEM subjects, or more general tertiary studies and are looking instead for courses that are better suited to their academic prowess?

 

Nah...   that would never be the case.

 

 

 

 

Nice try - but it's a level 1 course which was free (under the last government funding policies) anyway.

 

 




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  Reply # 1965059 27-Feb-2018 13:32
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Many will be taking the courses as an extra 'string to the bow', something to add to their CV.   They believe it may be helpful in gaining employment.    Just as a bulldozer mechanic may need to learn about hydraulics.   It does not mean they are excited about learning hydraulics...


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  Reply # 1965095 27-Feb-2018 14:06
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Fred99:

 

Nice try - but it's a level 1 course which was free (under the last government funding policies) anyway.

 

 

 

 

That is such an abysmal straw man argument that it almost doesn't merit a response.

 

However, for the benefit of the feebleminded...

 

I was not claiming that it's a new course, or that it wasn't previously free.  I was pointing out that "A year's free tertiary study" and "An extra $50pw in student allowances"  have been heavily promoted by the Labour party (both in their Election campaign, and in their subsequent press releases when the legislation was enacted)

 

NZHerald:

 

You couldn't hear the critics at the time because every spotlight and microphone was pointing at Jacinda Ardern, beaming on university campuses throughout the country shouting into a megaphone, "next year's on me!".

 

This has lead to a significant increase in student numbers.  (The increase, by definition, largely comprising students for whom the prospect of Tertiary Study did not previously offer a viable return on their investment)

 

It has been derided by the Universities themselves as poor policy that was having detrimental outcomes

 

"It will create perverse incentives for students to seek entry into degree programmes for which they are not adequately prepared, and in which they are unlikely to succeed without special preparation,"

 

 


gzt

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  Reply # 1965097 27-Feb-2018 14:07
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dafman: On the other side of the coin, RNZ today reported that Unitech are unable to meet the increased demand for students wanting to learn Te Reo. Cultural/generational change underway, perhaps?

Perhaps it's the Brash Effect.

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  Reply # 1965107 27-Feb-2018 14:14
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6FIEND:

 

This has lead to a significant increase in student numbers.  (The increase, by definition, largely comprising students for whom the prospect of Tertiary Study did not previously offer a viable return on their investment)

 

 

No it hasn't.

 

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/rnz/no-enrolment-increase-despite-zero-fees-universities

 

 


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  Reply # 1965113 27-Feb-2018 14:20
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6FIEND:

 

Fred99:

 

Nice try - but it's a level 1 course which was free (under the last government funding policies) anyway.

 

 

That is such an abysmal straw man argument that it almost doesn't merit a response.

 

 

What's abysmal about questioning an unfounded claim by pointing out a totally relevant fact?

 

You may *think* the reason for increase in Te Reo Level 1 enrolments is Labour's Fee Free policy, but for that course free fees were introduced in 2017, and were probably available to many students for a wide range of Level 1/2 courses beforehand anyway.

 

There's been an increase in interest in Te Reo.  You can possibly even thank Brash for that.  Think about it.  (Edit - two posts above, GZT had already thought about that)


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  Reply # 1965183 27-Feb-2018 15:35
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Fred99:

 

6FIEND:

 

This has lead to a significant increase in student numbers.  (The increase, by definition, largely comprising students for whom the prospect of Tertiary Study did not previously offer a viable return on their investment)

 

 

No it hasn't.

 

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/rnz/no-enrolment-increase-despite-zero-fees-universities

 

 

Direct quotes from the article you link to...

 

At the University of Waikato, enrolments from school leavers were very slightly up on last year

 

"Our applications are up were up over all 

 

Students are applying for more universities now at the initial stages 

 

At the University of Canterbury vice-chancellor Rod Carr said it appeared likely the university would have more students this year than last year 

 

That'll do...

 

 

 

Fred99:

 

What's abysmal about questioning an unfounded claim by pointing out a totally relevant fact?

 

 

It might pay for you to consider the difference between "suggesting a possibility" (which is explicitly what I did) and "making an unfounded claim"

 

 


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  Reply # 1965245 27-Feb-2018 16:52
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Enrolments being "very slightly up" isn't "significant".  They always vary from year to year and from institution to institution, and for a variety of reasons.

 

Students applying for more universities at the initial stages is something that needs to be addressed, as it causes major administrative/planning issues with an unknown number of applications converting to enrolments.  NZ needs to urgently change the procedure to perhaps the system used in Australia - which requires students applying to include a list with nominated preference, stating all institutions they're applying to, that can be taken into account when allocating places.  As it is at the moment, students have been applying for the same course at different institutions, hedging their bets in case they don't get accepted.  There's no penalty to apply everywhere. This happening at a time of year when the institution is trying to allocate resources for the following year - but not knowing what the conversion rate from application to enrolment will be.  It is a nightmare - ask any head of department or senior administrator to confirm.

 

UC enrolments also increased in 2017, it's at least partly (and perhaps mainly) due to post earthquake recovery in the city.  There's actually some stuff to do in the city again of interest to the student demographic, and rents have become affordable.  

 

 


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