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  Reply # 1966318 1-Mar-2018 09:26
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dafman: On the other side of the coin, RNZ today reported that Unitech are unable to meet the increased demand for students wanting to learn Te Reo. Cultural/generational change underway, perhaps?

 


Better to invest much earlier in the educational system, in pre-schools and primary schools.  Funding adults to learn an additional language is more or less a waste of money.





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  Reply # 1966348 1-Mar-2018 09:49
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I still believe that RNZ management chose to embrace Maori language for reasons of self interest.    Under National they had not had a funding increase in years & probably felt threatened.    By having their staff embrace the language the management saw it as a way to make it very difficult for National to slowly strangle RNZ or close it down.    RNZ hoped that by being an exemplar in the use of Te Reo that it would protect them & hopefully gain them more funding.    RNZ realised that Maori MP's would be influential either as the Maori party or as part of Labour & likely to be in Government one way or the other.

 

So in a way Don Brash can blame his former colleagues for what RNZ has become!!


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1966375 1-Mar-2018 10:07
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MikeAqua:

 

dafman: On the other side of the coin, RNZ today reported that Unitech are unable to meet the increased demand for students wanting to learn Te Reo. Cultural/generational change underway, perhaps?

 


Better to invest much earlier in the educational system, in pre-schools and primary schools.  Funding adults to learn an additional language is more or less a waste of money.

 

 

I'm not sure if that's validated by any data - it sounds more like a comment made by an economist using theory and the probable truth that "just having a level one certificate in Te Reo probably won't help you get a job".

 

There is good data (collated by TEC etc) to support an argument that provision of such courses can lead to general re-engagement in education for people who have failed (or been failed by) the system.  There's also good data to suggest that long-term outcomes for people who gain qualifications in subjects which don't have a direct vocational pathway, are considerably better than for people who don't have any qualifications.  

 

Before condemning a solution, I suspect more thought is needed in identifying what the problem is.  Some of course prefer to deny that there is a problem - or that anything can be done, but there is in my opinion a huge waste of human potential, it has a high cost to society, and it hasn't been improving.  This shouldn't be a partisan debate, the last government recognised the issue and went part-way to addressing it.  Don Brash's introduction of a race debate sucks - but that's how he behaves repeatedly.

 

I'm not arguing that entry-level courses should be funded by removing resources for pre-school/primary.  That should not be even considered.


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  Reply # 1966447 1-Mar-2018 12:12
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amiga500:

 

I still believe that RNZ management chose to embrace Maori language for reasons of self interest.    Under National they had not had a funding increase in years & probably felt threatened.    By having their staff embrace the language the management saw it as a way to make it very difficult for National to slowly strangle RNZ or close it down.    RNZ hoped that by being an exemplar in the use of Te Reo that it would protect them & hopefully gain them more funding.    RNZ realised that Maori MP's would be influential either as the Maori party or as part of Labour & likely to be in Government one way or the other.

 

So in a way Don Brash can blame his former colleagues for what RNZ has become!!

 

 

I believe that RNZ chose to embrace Te Reo as it is an official language, unique to Aoetearoa. 


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  Reply # 1966499 1-Mar-2018 13:47
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Fred99:

 

MikeAqua:

 

dafman: On the other side of the coin, RNZ today reported that Unitech are unable to meet the increased demand for students wanting to learn Te Reo. Cultural/generational change underway, perhaps?

 


Better to invest much earlier in the educational system, in pre-schools and primary schools.  Funding adults to learn an additional language is more or less a waste of money.

 

 

I'm not sure if that's validated by any data - it sounds more like a comment made by an economist using theory and the probable truth that "just having a level one certificate in Te Reo probably won't help you get a job".

 

There is good data (collated by TEC etc) to support an argument that provision of such courses can lead to general re-engagement in education for people who have failed (or been failed by) the system.  There's also good data to suggest that long-term outcomes for people who gain qualifications in subjects which don't have a direct vocational pathway, are considerably better than for people who don't have any qualifications. 

 

....

 

 

The % of NZrs fluent in Te Reo is quite low but the actual number of people is quite large  https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=184&topicid=225718&page_no=9#1948144.  The language doesn't appear at risk.  We would be stoked to have as many Kakapo as we have Te Reo speakers.

 

If the objective is to teach people Te Reo then my point is that it is easier to learn language when you are younger (<10 years).

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877042811025997/pdf?md5=8d8e8779d4ed0258ebfcb4d333379ba4&pid=1-s2.0-S1877042811025997-main.pdf&_valck=1

 

Young kids are also a captive audience.  By comparison teenagers and adults are less able to learn a new language and less available to do so.  Hence a less efficient way to increase uptake of Te Reo.

 

If the objective is to simply engage people in some form of formalised education then I agree that as you point out it doesn't really matter what the subject matter is.





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  Reply # 1966516 1-Mar-2018 14:19
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MikeAqua:

 

If the objective is to simply engage people in some form of formalised education then I agree that as you point out it doesn't really matter what the subject matter is.

 

 

It is, and I think you'll find that all of the institutions already have extremely challenging targets to meet which are intended to to increase participation and course completion from demographics this is targeting.  This isn't something new - the issue has been known for years, actions to sort it out only partly successful..  Hipkins is new though - and he's clearly on a mission.




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  Reply # 1966519 1-Mar-2018 14:25
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"I believe that RNZ chose to embrace Te Reo as it is an official language, unique to Aoetearoa."

 

Well, O.K. that is one reason, but put yourself in the shoes of the RNZ CEO and management.     They have not had an increase in funding for years and were not likely to get one from National.   Any competent CEO would have realised that getting political might be a pathway to increased funding.   Obviously RNZ could not become a cheer leader for either Labour or National, but what they could do was to become an enthusiastic supporter of Te Reo.   They ran zero risk of anyone in the Wellington political 'beltway' objecting.   


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