Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7
3314 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1248


  Reply # 1913413 5-Dec-2017 16:18
Send private message quote this post

Rikkitic:

 

I can assure you that the French take great offense when hapless foreigners garble pronunciation of their words. From some comments I have seen, Maori are not just being precious flowers here. What they object to is people not even making a feeble effort to attempt approximate pronunciation. They rightly perceive that as an insult, as in I hold this language in such contempt that it is not worth making any effort over. Maybe English speakers aren't bothered by this because English is constantly mutilated by people all over the world. It is in no way an endangered language, merely a tortured one.

 

 

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

 

Someone who pronounces Taupo incorrectly isn't trying to insult anyone.  They are simply pronouncing it how they have (incorrectly) learned it and therefore feel comfortable pronouncing it.

 

With any language there is an uncomfortable period while you are learning the pronunciation.  You have to work through that valley of death and it's easy to be self-concious.  Lose the mind game at that point and it's over.  Scolding about pronunciation can easily deter people from trying/learning/caring.

 

I know my high school (French) French teacher's attitude cost her lots and lots of students. She made French the least popular language at our school.  As soon as they could people dropped her class, just to get away from her imperious attitude.

 

 





Mike

15357 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4063

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1913418 5-Dec-2017 16:22
Send private message quote this post

I recall being in Noumea once, and I had been taking French Lessons 3 months, spent a bit of money on it. I tried speaking French and watching people visibly cringe when I tried was very offputting. 

 

One shopkeeper actually said "Please, *please* stop, I can't stand listening to you butcher my beautiful language, speak English". Someone came out afterward and said my accent was actually very good and they were impressed I had made an effort and to ignore that one person.

 

Having said that, on a recent Trip to Paris, I again did make an effort, and it seemed more appreciated than rebuffed. 

 

 


 
 
 
 


6215 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2924

Subscriber

  Reply # 1913421 5-Dec-2017 16:32
Send private message quote this post

MikeAqua:

 

Someone who pronounces Taupo incorrectly isn't trying to insult anyone.  They are simply pronouncing it how they have (incorrectly) learned it and therefore feel comfortable pronouncing it.

 

With any language there is an uncomfortable period while you are learning the pronunciation.  You have to work through that valley of death and it's easy to be self-concious.  Lose the mind game at that point and it's over.  Scolding about pronunciation can easily deter people from trying/learning/caring.

 

I know my high school (French) French teacher's attitude cost her lots and lots of students. She made French the least popular language at our school.  As soon as they could people dropped her class, just to get away from her imperious attitude.

 

 

 

 

Good point!

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


6215 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2924

Subscriber

  Reply # 1913424 5-Dec-2017 16:34
Send private message quote this post

networkn:

 

I recall being in Noumea once, and I had been taking French Lessons 3 months, spent a bit of money on it. I tried speaking French and watching people visibly cringe when I tried was very offputting. 

 

One shopkeeper actually said "Please, *please* stop, I can't stand listening to you butcher my beautiful language, speak English". Someone came out afterward and said my accent was actually very good and they were impressed I had made an effort and to ignore that one person.

 

Having said that, on a recent Trip to Paris, I again did make an effort, and it seemed more appreciated than rebuffed. 

 

 

 

 

I feel your pain. I have been there. Modern, younger French people are much, much better in this regard.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


15357 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4063

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1913436 5-Dec-2017 16:59
Send private message quote this post

Rikkitic:

 

networkn:

 

I recall being in Noumea once, and I had been taking French Lessons 3 months, spent a bit of money on it. I tried speaking French and watching people visibly cringe when I tried was very offputting. 

 

One shopkeeper actually said "Please, *please* stop, I can't stand listening to you butcher my beautiful language, speak English". Someone came out afterward and said my accent was actually very good and they were impressed I had made an effort and to ignore that one person.

 

Having said that, on a recent Trip to Paris, I again did make an effort, and it seemed more appreciated than rebuffed. 

 

 

 

 

I feel your pain. I have been there. Modern, younger French people are much, much better in this regard.

 

 

 

 

I feel that talking to people that Travelled in France 10-15 years ago, vs now, the culture in Paris esp has improve re Tourists. Before, they resented us, now they embrace us (somewhat). 

 

I went to a couple of 3 Michellin Star restaurants in Paris, I felt like a fish out of water because of the language, though they were excellent in helping me navigate the menu's etc. 

 

 


2664 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 400


  Reply # 1913452 5-Dec-2017 17:20
Send private message quote this post

networkn:

 

I feel that talking to people that Travelled in France 10-15 years ago, vs now, the culture in Paris esp has improve re Tourists. Before, they resented us, now they embrace us (somewhat). 

 

I went to a couple of 3 Michellin Star restaurants in Paris, I felt like a fish out of water because of the language, though they were excellent in helping me navigate the menu's etc. 

 

 

 

 

My experience about 25 years ago was they particularly didn't like the English (that was probably mutual laughing). However once/if they knew you were from New Zealand their attitude to you and your poor French language skills evaporated. They admired the All Blacks and were very apologetic about the Rainbow Warrior attack.





Sony Xperia X running Sailfish
Jolla C
Nokia N1
Dell Inspiron 14z i5


10541 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1747

Trusted

  Reply # 1913493 5-Dec-2017 19:58
Send private message quote this post

networkn:

 

I recall being in Noumea once, and I had been taking French Lessons 3 months, spent a bit of money on it. I tried speaking French and watching people visibly cringe when I tried was very offputting. 

 

One shopkeeper actually said "Please, *please* stop, I can't stand listening to you butcher my beautiful language, speak English". Someone came out afterward and said my accent was actually very good and they were impressed I had made an effort and to ignore that one person.

 

Having said that, on a recent Trip to Paris, I again did make an effort, and it seemed more appreciated than rebuffed. 

 

 

 

 

I get that. I took a Chinese Intermediate class, for quite a while. Tutor said I was good. I passed. Talked to wife's  parents, (who are Chinese) non comprende! 

 

But thats ok. I tried, and I know a bit. When I hear foreignors talk English, thats fine too, same issue. I did German for 4 years, so I understand its not hard but its also not easy. Effort counts


10541 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1747

Trusted

  Reply # 1913494 5-Dec-2017 20:01
Send private message quote this post

Technofreak:

 

networkn:

 

I feel that talking to people that Travelled in France 10-15 years ago, vs now, the culture in Paris esp has improve re Tourists. Before, they resented us, now they embrace us (somewhat). 

 

I went to a couple of 3 Michellin Star restaurants in Paris, I felt like a fish out of water because of the language, though they were excellent in helping me navigate the menu's etc. 

 

 

 

 

My experience about 25 years ago was they particularly didn't like the English (that was probably mutual laughing). However once/if they knew you were from New Zealand their attitude to you and your poor French language skills evaporated. They admired the All Blacks and were very apologetic about the Rainbow Warrior attack.

 

 

And the semi final, forget what year, against France??? :-)  

 

End of the day, people, are people, people like good people, where that be a nation or an individual.


2074 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 961

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1913534 5-Dec-2017 20:26
Send private message quote this post

networkn:

 

I can imagine Maori's cringing painfully every night at 5pm as John Campbell tries to be trendy and speak some Maori. I am not Maori and it makes me wince when I hear it. 

 

 

networkn:

 

I recall being in Noumea once, and I had been taking French Lessons 3 months, spent a bit of money on it. I tried speaking French and watching people visibly cringe when I tried was very offputting. 

 

 

Serves you right for trying to be trendy ... ?


3325 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 988


  Reply # 1913535 5-Dec-2017 20:26
4 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

MikeB4:

 

I don't know why they give this racist has been or more accurately never was the time of day. Just ignore him and and leave him to his own little bigoted world.

 

 

What exactly did Brash say that was racist? Did he threaten to kill all the maoris, or that he hates maori? 

My understanding is that he wants less Te Reo spoken on a government funded radio station. 

 

It is a valid opinion, just as someone who wants more Te Reo spoken on the same radio station. 

 

To use the word racist in this sense is to marginalise real racism (national front type stuff). 

 

Would you like the government to fine/imprison people from expressing that they want less maori spoken  on radio NZ? 

 

Personally, I don't care if they change RNZ to a maori only station. But I do care that people are trying to use hate to suppress another persons opinion. 


15357 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4063

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1913570 5-Dec-2017 21:39
Send private message quote this post

dafman:

 

networkn:

 

I can imagine Maori's cringing painfully every night at 5pm as John Campbell tries to be trendy and speak some Maori. I am not Maori and it makes me wince when I hear it. 

 

 

networkn:

 

I recall being in Noumea once, and I had been taking French Lessons 3 months, spent a bit of money on it. I tried speaking French and watching people visibly cringe when I tried was very offputting. 

 

 

Serves you right for trying to be trendy ... ?

 

 

You seem to be trying to pick a fight with me in multiple threads, save your trolling for someone else. 

 

 


2074 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 961

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1913653 6-Dec-2017 07:03
Send private message quote this post

networkn:

 

dafman:

 

networkn:

 

I can imagine Maori's cringing painfully every night at 5pm as John Campbell tries to be trendy and speak some Maori. I am not Maori and it makes me wince when I hear it. 

 

 

networkn:

 

I recall being in Noumea once, and I had been taking French Lessons 3 months, spent a bit of money on it. I tried speaking French and watching people visibly cringe when I tried was very offputting. 

 

 

Serves you right for trying to be trendy ... ?

 

 

You seem to be trying to pick a fight with me in multiple threads, save your trolling for someone else. 

 

 

 

 

Just picking up on contradictions in a debate - John Campbell is 'trying to be trendy' when using a second language, when you use one you are not. However, point taken, I could have commented on this without the sarcasm.


15357 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4063

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1913716 6-Dec-2017 09:25
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

dafman:

 

Just picking up on contradictions in a debate - John Campbell is 'trying to be trendy' when using a second language, when you use one you are not. However, point taken, I could have commented on this without the sarcasm.

 

 

The two situations are completely different. I am sure you can see that. 

 

 

 

 


3314 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1248


  Reply # 1913729 6-Dec-2017 09:52
Send private message quote this post

surfisup1000:

 

MikeB4:

 

I don't know why they give this racist has been or more accurately never was the time of day. Just ignore him and and leave him to his own little bigoted world.

 

 

What exactly did Brash say that was racist? Did he threaten to kill all the maoris, or that he hates maori? 

 

 

Specifically: he objected to non-translated te reo for audiences who were almost entirely non-fluent in te reo. He referred to Guyon on RNZ but also to meeting attended by a non-Maori audience that commenced with a non-translated mihi.  He also said he supports tax-payers funding of te reo platforms. I guess he could be accused of separatism -which is a form of racism. 

 

He is an intelligent, intellectual man and I imagine speech from which he can't glean information irritates him.  He also said he has no interest in learning te reo, but wishes he spoke mandarin - a statement which people may interpret as racist if they specifically want to.

 

I still think he is trying to limit the free speech of others, for something that is at worst an irritant or inconvenience to him and therefore he is wrong.

 

But he has the right to express his view too.  He should have the common sense to know he is picking a fight he can't win.  As a wealthy-white-male, he is the spawn of Satan in the eyes of a liberal audience before he opens his mouth.

 

Ultimately I think free speech prevails.  

 

My grandmother taught me a little of 'the Gaelic' (she was fluent).  If I wanted to prattle on in Gaelic in front of an audience who don't understand it I can (for about 30 seconds!).  Free speech gives me that right.   I don't because the audience wouldn't understand it and consequently I think it would be pointless and impolite.  





Mike

10338 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3184

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1913812 6-Dec-2017 11:48
Send private message quote this post

networkn:

 

I recall being in Noumea once, and I had been taking French Lessons 3 months, spent a bit of money on it. I tried speaking French and watching people visibly cringe when I tried was very offputting. 

 

One shopkeeper actually said "Please, *please* stop, I can't stand listening to you butcher my beautiful language, speak English". Someone came out afterward and said my accent was actually very good and they were impressed I had made an effort and to ignore that one person.

 

Having said that, on a recent Trip to Paris, I again did make an effort, and it seemed more appreciated than rebuffed. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Master the response to the question "parlez-vous Francais?"

 

 

 

"Oui, un petit peu, comme les enfants et s'il vous parlez lentement."

 

 

 

The grammar might not be correct (it's been a long while since I had to write in French!) but I have always found that French people laugh at the response (which for any non speakers reading means, roughly "Do you speak French?" "Yes, a little bit, like children and if you speak slowly!") and immediately take it into account in the subsequent conversation.






1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

New Zealand's IT industry in 2018 and beyond
Posted 22-Jan-2018 12:50


Introducing your new workplace headache: Gen Z
Posted 22-Jan-2018 12:45


Jucy set to introduce electric campervan fleet
Posted 22-Jan-2018 12:41


Hawaiki cable system will be ready for service in June 2018
Posted 22-Jan-2018 12:32


New Zealand hits peak broadband data
Posted 18-Jan-2018 12:21


Amazon Echo devices coming to New Zealand early February 2018
Posted 18-Jan-2018 10:53


$3.74 million for new electric vehicles in New Zealand
Posted 17-Jan-2018 11:27


Nova 2i: Value, not excitement from Huawei
Posted 17-Jan-2018 09:02


Less news in Facebook News Feed revamp
Posted 15-Jan-2018 13:15


Australian Government contract awarded to Datacom Connect
Posted 11-Jan-2018 08:37


Why New Zealand needs a chief technology officer
Posted 6-Jan-2018 13:59


Amazon release Silk Browser and Firefox for Fire TV
Posted 21-Dec-2017 13:42


New Chief Technology Officer role created
Posted 19-Dec-2017 22:18


All I want for Christmas is a new EV
Posted 19-Dec-2017 19:54


How clever is this: AI will create 2.3 million jobs by 2020
Posted 19-Dec-2017 19:52



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.