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  Reply # 1913815 6-Dec-2017 11:53
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MikeAqua:

 

surfisup1000:

 

MikeB4:

 

I don't know why they give this racist has been or more accurately never was the time of day. Just ignore him and and leave him to his own little bigoted world.

 

 

What exactly did Brash say that was racist? Did he threaten to kill all the maoris, or that he hates maori? 

 

 

Specifically: he objected to non-translated te reo for audiences who were almost entirely non-fluent in te reo. He referred to Guyon on RNZ but also to meeting attended by a non-Maori audience that commenced with a non-translated mihi.  He also said he supports tax-payers funding of te reo platforms. I guess he could be accused of separatism -which is a form of racism. 

 

He is an intelligent, intellectual man and I imagine speech from which he can't glean information irritates him.  He also said he has no interest in learning te reo, but wishes he spoke mandarin - a statement which people may interpret as racist if they specifically want to.

 

I still think he is trying to limit the free speech of others, for something that is at worst an irritant or inconvenience to him and therefore he is wrong.

 

But he has the right to express his view too.  He should have the common sense to know he is picking a fight he can't win.  As a wealthy-white-male, he is the spawn of Satan in the eyes of a liberal audience before he opens his mouth.

 

Ultimately I think free speech prevails.  

 

My grandmother taught me a little of 'the Gaelic' (she was fluent).  If I wanted to prattle on in Gaelic in front of an audience who don't understand it I can (for about 30 seconds!).  Free speech gives me that right.   I don't because the audience wouldn't understand it and consequently I think it would be pointless and impolite.  

 

 

 

 

It's also not exactly racist to object to a language in that context, I feel.

 

It would be (or at least could be) if he was objecting to it's use at all, ever, anywhere. However, objecting to the occasional and somewhat pointless (from a communication point of view) use of it on a National Radio station is not really racist, whether you agree with it or not. Of course, these days, just about anything is racist, fascist, sexist, or something-you-never-knew-about-ist so perhaps we ought not to be wholly surprised.






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  Reply # 1913819 6-Dec-2017 12:02
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surfisup1000:

 

MikeB4:

 

I don't know why they give this racist has been or more accurately never was the time of day. Just ignore him and and leave him to his own little bigoted world.

 

 

What exactly did Brash say that was racist? Did he threaten to kill all the maoris, or that he hates maori? 

My understanding is that he wants less Te Reo spoken on a government funded radio station. 

 

It is a valid opinion, just as someone who wants more Te Reo spoken on the same radio station. 

 

To use the word racist in this sense is to marginalise real racism (national front type stuff). 

 

Would you like the government to fine/imprison people from expressing that they want less maori spoken  on radio NZ? 

 

Personally, I don't care if they change RNZ to a maori only station. But I do care that people are trying to use hate to suppress another persons opinion. 

 

 

 

 

Not all racism is violent or in your face, insidious racism is just as real and just as harmful. 





Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


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  Reply # 1913825 6-Dec-2017 12:15
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MikeB4:

 

Not all racism is violent or in your face, insidious racism is just as real and just as harmful. 

 

 

I can't agree that insidious racism is just as harmful as violent racism. 


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  Reply # 1913833 6-Dec-2017 12:56
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networkn:

MikeB4:


Not all racism is violent or in your face, insidious racism is just as real and just as harmful. 



I can't agree that insidious racism is just as harmful as violent racism. 



Invidious by definition "proceeding in a gradual, subtle way, but with very harmful effects."

When one lives with and sees the affects it is very apparent. My mokopuna often sadly talk to me about it. I have a opposite view to you.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


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  Reply # 1913853 6-Dec-2017 14:04
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MikeB4:
networkn:

 

MikeB4:

 

 

 

Not all racism is violent or in your face, insidious racism is just as real and just as harmful. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can't agree that insidious racism is just as harmful as violent racism. 

 



Invidious by definition "proceeding in a gradual, subtle way, but with very harmful effects."

When one lives with and sees the affects it is very apparent. My mokopuna often sadly talk to me about it. I have a opposite view to you.

 

Obviously, you're entitled to your opposing viewpoint - and I completely support your right to voice that.

 

However, I would postulate that none of your mokopuna have suffered the same effects (or even effects in the same ballpark) as the Tutsi suffered at the hands of the Hutu in Rwanda.  Therefore I simply cannot reconcile your statement that "Not all racism is violent or in your face, insidious racism is just as real and just as harmful." with my own world view.


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  Reply # 1913854 6-Dec-2017 14:04
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MikeB4:
networkn:

 

MikeB4:

 

 

 

Not all racism is violent or in your face, insidious racism is just as real and just as harmful. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can't agree that insidious racism is just as harmful as violent racism. 

 



Invidious by definition "proceeding in a gradual, subtle way, but with very harmful effects."

When one lives with and sees the affects it is very apparent. My mokopuna often sadly talk to me about it. I have a opposite view to you.

 

Obviously, you're entitled to your opposing viewpoint - and I completely support your right to voice that.

 

However, I would postulate that none of your mokopuna have suffered the same effects (or even effects in the same ballpark) as the Tutsi suffered at the hands of the Hutu in Rwanda.  Therefore I simply cannot reconcile your statement that "Not all racism is violent or in your face, insidious racism is just as real and just as harmful." with my own world view.


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  Reply # 1913857 6-Dec-2017 14:17
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No reflection on any one contributor to this thread, I am opting out and wont be responding further. I find this too upsetting.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


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  Reply # 1913863 6-Dec-2017 14:29
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MikeB4:

surfisup1000:


MikeB4:


I don't know why they give this racist has been or more accurately never was the time of day. Just ignore him and and leave him to his own little bigoted world.



What exactly did Brash say that was racist? Did he threaten to kill all the maoris, or that he hates maori? 

My understanding is that he wants less Te Reo spoken on a government funded radio station. 


It is a valid opinion, just as someone who wants more Te Reo spoken on the same radio station. 


To use the word racist in this sense is to marginalise real racism (national front type stuff). 


Would you like the government to fine/imprison people from expressing that they want less maori spoken  on radio NZ? 


Personally, I don't care if they change RNZ to a maori only station. But I do care that people are trying to use hate to suppress another persons opinion. 



 


Not all racism is violent or in your face, insidious racism is just as real and just as harmful. 



Not all racism is in fact racism these days.





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  Reply # 1914973 8-Dec-2017 06:33
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MikeAqua:

 

Rikkitic:

 

I can assure you that the French take great offense when hapless foreigners garble pronunciation of their words. From some comments I have seen, Maori are not just being precious flowers here. What they object to is people not even making a feeble effort to attempt approximate pronunciation. They rightly perceive that as an insult, as in I hold this language in such contempt that it is not worth making any effort over. Maybe English speakers aren't bothered by this because English is constantly mutilated by people all over the world. It is in no way an endangered language, merely a tortured one.

 

 

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

 

Someone who pronounces Taupo incorrectly isn't trying to insult anyone.  They are simply pronouncing it how they have (incorrectly) learned it and therefore feel comfortable pronouncing it.

 

With any language there is an uncomfortable period while you are learning the pronunciation.  You have to work through that valley of death and it's easy to be self-concious.  Lose the mind game at that point and it's over.  Scolding about pronunciation can easily deter people from trying/learning/caring.

 

I know my high school (French) French teacher's attitude cost her lots and lots of students. She made French the least popular language at our school.  As soon as they could people dropped her class, just to get away from her imperious attitude.

 

 

 

 

Question: why is Pa-raah-pa-raah-ooo-moo pronounced pram?


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  Reply # 1915065 8-Dec-2017 09:43
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Batman:

 

Question: why is Pa-raah-pa-raah-ooo-moo pronounced pram?

 

 

Anglicisation isn't new, and isn't restricted to Maori words.  How do you pronounce Paris?  Do you say Munich or Munchen?  How about Gothenburg?


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  Reply # 1915428 8-Dec-2017 20:09
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Batman:

 

MikeAqua:

 

Rikkitic:

 

I can assure you that the French take great offense when hapless foreigners garble pronunciation of their words. From some comments I have seen, Maori are not just being precious flowers here. What they object to is people not even making a feeble effort to attempt approximate pronunciation. They rightly perceive that as an insult, as in I hold this language in such contempt that it is not worth making any effort over. Maybe English speakers aren't bothered by this because English is constantly mutilated by people all over the world. It is in no way an endangered language, merely a tortured one.

 

 

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

 

Someone who pronounces Taupo incorrectly isn't trying to insult anyone.  They are simply pronouncing it how they have (incorrectly) learned it and therefore feel comfortable pronouncing it.

 

With any language there is an uncomfortable period while you are learning the pronunciation.  You have to work through that valley of death and it's easy to be self-concious.  Lose the mind game at that point and it's over.  Scolding about pronunciation can easily deter people from trying/learning/caring.

 

I know my high school (French) French teacher's attitude cost her lots and lots of students. She made French the least popular language at our school.  As soon as they could people dropped her class, just to get away from her imperious attitude.

 

 

 

 

Question: why is Pa-raah-pa-raah-ooo-moo pronounced pram?

 

 

I spend a lot of time on the Kapiti coast. I pronounce Paraparaumu as Paraparaumu. So do most of the people I know.


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  Reply # 1915446 8-Dec-2017 21:34
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I always felt that one was a transferred austiisation type shortening.

https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/parram

It's not the only one..

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  Reply # 1916665 11-Dec-2017 13:13
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dafman:

 

Batman:

 

Question: why is Pa-raah-pa-raah-ooo-moo pronounced pram?

 

 

I spend a lot of time on the Kapiti coast. I pronounce Paraparaumu as Paraparaumu. So do most of the people I know.

 

 

This raise another issue - nicknames.  How Taranaki becomes the Naki, Mount Maunganui becomes the Mount.

 

Similarly Paraparaumu becomes 'Paraparam'.

 

People like to shorten names - no big deal for European names: Palmerston becomes palmy and no-one is upset. 

 

In te reo you are likely to upset some people by taking this approach.  Again - less freedom of expression with te reo (if you wish to avoid upsetting people).





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  Reply # 1916769 11-Dec-2017 14:28
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MikeAqua:

 

Similarly Paraparaumu becomes 'Paraparam'.

 

 

 

 

I thought it had become 'The Umu'

 

Paraparam is less of a shortening, more of a lazy anglicizing.

 

 

 

 


gzt

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  Reply # 1917174 12-Dec-2017 09:46
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Wikipedia: It is commonly abbreviated to "Para-Param", particularly by longer-term residents of European ethnicity, and simply "Pram" by local youth.

Is that a recent thing?

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