Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14
17244 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4927

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1917176 12-Dec-2017 09:51
Send private message

gzt:
Wikipedia: It is commonly abbreviated to "Para-Param", particularly by longer-term residents of European ethnicity, and simply "Pram" by local youth.

Is that a recent thing?

 

Well I recall it being used in my late teenage years and early 20's so not particularly. 

 

Used mainly by my friends/associates at the time. Don't recall "adults" using it that much. 

 

 

 

 


4506 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1811


  Reply # 1917215 12-Dec-2017 10:34
Send private message

Varkk:

 

Paraparam is less of a shortening, more of a lazy anglicizing.

 

 

Good term.

 

Some lazy things happen with European place-names too.  For example Han-mer (Springs) is usually pronounced Ham-ner.  In Nelson there is a suburb called Enner Glynn, which most people pronounce Inner Glenn.

 

Both those examples are awkward but not difficult to pronounce as written. Do we have a tendency to revert to sounds that are easy to make?

 

Are we inherently linguistically lazy - the propensity for contraction and truncation suggests we are - e.g. didn't instead of did not, arvo instead of afternoon.

 

Is this laziness an inherently English language thing or does it happen in other languages too?  I'm not familiar enough with any of them to know.





Mike

11449 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3679

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1917503 12-Dec-2017 15:56
Send private message

networkn:

 

gzt:
Wikipedia: It is commonly abbreviated to "Para-Param", particularly by longer-term residents of European ethnicity, and simply "Pram" by local youth.

Is that a recent thing?

 

Well I recall it being used in my late teenage years and early 20's so not particularly. 

 

Used mainly by my friends/associates at the time. Don't recall "adults" using it that much. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There were several people in the office when I worked in Wellington who referred to it as 'parapram' all the time. Likewise few people over here bother with the awkward extra 'ra' in Wairarapa - most call it "Wairapa".






17244 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4927

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1917513 12-Dec-2017 16:03
One person supports this post
Send private message

Geektastic:

 

networkn:

 

gzt:
Wikipedia: It is commonly abbreviated to "Para-Param", particularly by longer-term residents of European ethnicity, and simply "Pram" by local youth.

Is that a recent thing?

 

Well I recall it being used in my late teenage years and early 20's so not particularly. 

 

Used mainly by my friends/associates at the time. Don't recall "adults" using it that much. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There were several people in the office when I worked in Wellington who referred to it as 'parapram' all the time. Likewise few people over here bother with the awkward extra 'ra' in Wairarapa - most call it "Wairapa".

 

 

Holy moly I have been having such a reading fail all these years, I have NEVER heard the extra pa said, when I look at it it's clearly there. 

 

If I heard someone say the extra pa, I'd have assumed they were having a stroke, or talking about a different place. 

 

 


gzt

9921 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1492


  Reply # 1937468 12-Jan-2018 07:28
Send private message

Torpor for Taupo.

597 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 520


  Reply # 1937670 12-Jan-2018 13:15
Send private message

gzt: Torpor for Taupo.

 

That one gets me every time...

 

The Maori pronunciation for Taupo (as described to me by Tuwharetoa members) is "Toe" "Paw"


gzt

9921 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1492


  Reply # 1937812 12-Jan-2018 19:12
One person supports this post
Send private message

I like the idea of putting the full name on the road sign: Taupō-nui-a-Tia

Makes more sense.

12589 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5907

Trusted

  Reply # 1941218 16-Jan-2018 22:29
Send private message

and the capital to 'Te Whanganui a Tara'





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


gzt

9921 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1492


  Reply # 1941326 17-Jan-2018 10:00
Send private message

"Te Upoko o te Ika a Maui" seems like a prediction in hindsight.

4506 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1811


  Reply # 1941519 17-Jan-2018 13:38
One person supports this post
Send private message

I've been reconsidering this topic lately in light of Paul Moon's comments

 

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/01/obsession-with-pronunciation-killing-te-reo-m-ori-historian.html

 

I think he has somewhat of point.  Obsessing about diction doesn't get anyone very far. 

 

Ordinarily to teach a language (first or subsequent) one would start with vocab then progress to grammar and syntax to allow simple sentences and aim to improve diction with usage along the way. 

 

If you are over about 35 the mainstream education system didn't teach you very much Te Reo at all.  Most non-Maori kids didn't learn how to physically make the correct sounds at an early age, when this would have been readily learn-able.  I went to a school with 80% Maori kids in Rotorua but we were taught sod-all Te Reo.  About an hour per week in the library/assembly hall where we mostly learned action songs.

 

By contrast my younger kids have good diction because they started learning at pre-school, when they absorb languages like sponge.  This suggests to me that diction will improve continually over time, if people are patient.  But this will have zero impact on fluency because they aren't learning language just words.

 

If advocates are serious about Te Reo becoming a widely used language in NZ, they need to stop scolding about diction and focus on teaching language.

 

 





Mike

Glurp
7550 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3532

Subscriber

  Reply # 1941546 17-Jan-2018 14:42
Send private message

Agree completely with that one. Adults who learn another language can, with some effort, achieve reasonable fluency but the accent is often atrocious. Instead of bashing them for that, they should be praised for making the effort at all.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


11449 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3679

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1941615 17-Jan-2018 16:36
Send private message

He's right.

 

Also, minor languages need to be used by those for whom they have cultural significance - and even then not everyone will bother. For example, Welsh is a minor language but the number of Welsh speakers even in Wales itself is not high - about 11%. The number outside Wales would be less than 1% by some margin.

 

If the native speakers wish to save their language, they must see to it. There also needs to be some point to learning it other than 'because we told you it was a good idea".






4506 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1811


  Reply # 1946490 25-Jan-2018 11:09
2 people support this post
Send private message

Geektastic:

 

There also needs to be some point to learning it other than 'because we told you it was a good idea".

 

 

Agree. I call the "it's good for you" rationale the spinach argument

 

At school the spinach argument saw us dragged to the ballet, the orchestra, particularity serious plays, musicals and even the opera.  As a consequence I have been thoroughly inoculated against all those things and have visceral negative reaction to all of them. 

 

Learning Te Reo (or any second langauge) would have been good for me at kindy or early in primary school.  It would have aided my brain development and made it easier to learn languages later and decreased the likelihood of cognitive impairment in old age.  The govt could have enforced it via the curriculum. In hindsight I wish they had.   It's too late now - that critical development window closed decades ago.

 

 

 

 





Mike

1681 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 809


  Reply # 1946518 25-Jan-2018 12:05
Send private message

Bad diction applies also to English in this little country. With social media and the world becoming so small English will rule despite what anyone might want. 

 

I agree with compulsory Te Reo up until secondary school only. At this point we must do better at teaching our kids for life, and Te Reo is not part of that.


gzt

9921 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1492


  Reply # 1946589 25-Jan-2018 14:02
Send private message

MikeAqua: Learning Te Reo (or any second langauge) would have been good for me at kindy or early in primary school.  It would have aided my brain development and made it easier to learn languages later and decreased the likelihood of cognitive impairment in old age.

Agree. There may be some benefit for health statistics. Language teaching is a fairly specialised skill. Many preschools and early classes weave it into the curriculum. Imo that works well and can provide some basis for development.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic

Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Microsoft Dynamics 365 Business Central launches
Posted 10-Jul-2018 10:40


Spark completes first milestone in voice platform upgrade
Posted 10-Jul-2018 09:36


Microsoft ices heated developers
Posted 6-Jul-2018 20:16


PB Technologies charged for its extended warranties and warned for bait advertising
Posted 3-Jul-2018 15:45


Almost 20,000 people claim credits from Spark
Posted 29-Jun-2018 10:40


Cove sells NZ's first insurance policy via chatbot
Posted 25-Jun-2018 10:04


N4L helping TAKA Trust bridge the digital divide for Lower Hutt students
Posted 18-Jun-2018 13:08


Winners Announced for 2018 CIO Awards
Posted 18-Jun-2018 13:03


Logitech Rally sets new standard for USB-connected video conference cameras
Posted 18-Jun-2018 09:27


Russell Stanners steps down as Vodafone NZ CEO
Posted 12-Jun-2018 09:13


Intergen recognised as 2018 Microsoft Country Partner of the Year for New Zealand
Posted 12-Jun-2018 08:00


Finalists Announced For Microsoft NZ Partner Awards
Posted 6-Jun-2018 15:12


Vocus Group and Vodafone announce joint venture to accelerate fibre innovation
Posted 5-Jun-2018 10:52


Kogan.com to launch Kogan Mobile in New Zealand
Posted 4-Jun-2018 14:34


Enable doubles fibre broadband speeds for its most popular wholesale service in Christchurch
Posted 2-Jun-2018 20:07



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.