Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14
22217 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1917176 12-Dec-2017 09:51
Send private message

gzt:
Wikipedia: It is commonly abbreviated to "Para-Param", particularly by longer-term residents of European ethnicity, and simply "Pram" by local youth.

Is that a recent thing?

 

Well I recall it being used in my late teenage years and early 20's so not particularly. 

 

Used mainly by my friends/associates at the time. Don't recall "adults" using it that much. 

 

 

 

 


5487 posts

Uber Geek


  #1917215 12-Dec-2017 10:34
Send private message

Varkk:

 

Paraparam is less of a shortening, more of a lazy anglicizing.

 

 

Good term.

 

Some lazy things happen with European place-names too.  For example Han-mer (Springs) is usually pronounced Ham-ner.  In Nelson there is a suburb called Enner Glynn, which most people pronounce Inner Glenn.

 

Both those examples are awkward but not difficult to pronounce as written. Do we have a tendency to revert to sounds that are easy to make?

 

Are we inherently linguistically lazy - the propensity for contraction and truncation suggests we are - e.g. didn't instead of did not, arvo instead of afternoon.

 

Is this laziness an inherently English language thing or does it happen in other languages too?  I'm not familiar enough with any of them to know.





Mike

 
 
 
 


14213 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1917503 12-Dec-2017 15:56
Send private message

networkn:

 

gzt:
Wikipedia: It is commonly abbreviated to "Para-Param", particularly by longer-term residents of European ethnicity, and simply "Pram" by local youth.

Is that a recent thing?

 

Well I recall it being used in my late teenage years and early 20's so not particularly. 

 

Used mainly by my friends/associates at the time. Don't recall "adults" using it that much. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There were several people in the office when I worked in Wellington who referred to it as 'parapram' all the time. Likewise few people over here bother with the awkward extra 'ra' in Wairarapa - most call it "Wairapa".






22217 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1917513 12-Dec-2017 16:03
One person supports this post
Send private message

Geektastic:

 

networkn:

 

gzt:
Wikipedia: It is commonly abbreviated to "Para-Param", particularly by longer-term residents of European ethnicity, and simply "Pram" by local youth.

Is that a recent thing?

 

Well I recall it being used in my late teenage years and early 20's so not particularly. 

 

Used mainly by my friends/associates at the time. Don't recall "adults" using it that much. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There were several people in the office when I worked in Wellington who referred to it as 'parapram' all the time. Likewise few people over here bother with the awkward extra 'ra' in Wairarapa - most call it "Wairapa".

 

 

Holy moly I have been having such a reading fail all these years, I have NEVER heard the extra pa said, when I look at it it's clearly there. 

 

If I heard someone say the extra pa, I'd have assumed they were having a stroke, or talking about a different place. 

 

 


gzt

11192 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1937468 12-Jan-2018 07:28
Send private message

Torpor for Taupo.

774 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user


  #1937670 12-Jan-2018 13:15
Send private message

gzt: Torpor for Taupo.

 

That one gets me every time...

 

The Maori pronunciation for Taupo (as described to me by Tuwharetoa members) is "Toe" "Paw"


gzt

11192 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1937812 12-Jan-2018 19:12
One person supports this post
Send private message

I like the idea of putting the full name on the road sign: Taupō-nui-a-Tia

Makes more sense.

 
 
 
 


14925 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  #1941218 16-Jan-2018 22:29
Send private message

and the capital to 'Te Whanganui a Tara'





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Be it ever so humble, there is no place like home.


gzt

11192 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1941326 17-Jan-2018 10:00
Send private message

"Te Upoko o te Ika a Maui" seems like a prediction in hindsight.

5487 posts

Uber Geek


  #1941519 17-Jan-2018 13:38
One person supports this post
Send private message

I've been reconsidering this topic lately in light of Paul Moon's comments

 

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/01/obsession-with-pronunciation-killing-te-reo-m-ori-historian.html

 

I think he has somewhat of point.  Obsessing about diction doesn't get anyone very far. 

 

Ordinarily to teach a language (first or subsequent) one would start with vocab then progress to grammar and syntax to allow simple sentences and aim to improve diction with usage along the way. 

 

If you are over about 35 the mainstream education system didn't teach you very much Te Reo at all.  Most non-Maori kids didn't learn how to physically make the correct sounds at an early age, when this would have been readily learn-able.  I went to a school with 80% Maori kids in Rotorua but we were taught sod-all Te Reo.  About an hour per week in the library/assembly hall where we mostly learned action songs.

 

By contrast my younger kids have good diction because they started learning at pre-school, when they absorb languages like sponge.  This suggests to me that diction will improve continually over time, if people are patient.  But this will have zero impact on fluency because they aren't learning language just words.

 

If advocates are serious about Te Reo becoming a widely used language in NZ, they need to stop scolding about diction and focus on teaching language.

 

 





Mike

Lock him up!
11632 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1941546 17-Jan-2018 14:42
Send private message

Agree completely with that one. Adults who learn another language can, with some effort, achieve reasonable fluency but the accent is often atrocious. Instead of bashing them for that, they should be praised for making the effort at all.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


14213 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1941615 17-Jan-2018 16:36
One person supports this post
Send private message

He's right.

 

Also, minor languages need to be used by those for whom they have cultural significance - and even then not everyone will bother. For example, Welsh is a minor language but the number of Welsh speakers even in Wales itself is not high - about 11%. The number outside Wales would be less than 1% by some margin.

 

If the native speakers wish to save their language, they must see to it. There also needs to be some point to learning it other than 'because we told you it was a good idea".






5487 posts

Uber Geek


  #1946490 25-Jan-2018 11:09
2 people support this post
Send private message

Geektastic:

 

There also needs to be some point to learning it other than 'because we told you it was a good idea".

 

 

Agree. I call the "it's good for you" rationale the spinach argument

 

At school the spinach argument saw us dragged to the ballet, the orchestra, particularity serious plays, musicals and even the opera.  As a consequence I have been thoroughly inoculated against all those things and have visceral negative reaction to all of them. 

 

Learning Te Reo (or any second langauge) would have been good for me at kindy or early in primary school.  It would have aided my brain development and made it easier to learn languages later and decreased the likelihood of cognitive impairment in old age.  The govt could have enforced it via the curriculum. In hindsight I wish they had.   It's too late now - that critical development window closed decades ago.

 

 

 

 





Mike

1759 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  #1946518 25-Jan-2018 12:05
Send private message

Bad diction applies also to English in this little country. With social media and the world becoming so small English will rule despite what anyone might want. 

 

I agree with compulsory Te Reo up until secondary school only. At this point we must do better at teaching our kids for life, and Te Reo is not part of that.


gzt

11192 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1946589 25-Jan-2018 14:02
Send private message

MikeAqua: Learning Te Reo (or any second langauge) would have been good for me at kindy or early in primary school.  It would have aided my brain development and made it easier to learn languages later and decreased the likelihood of cognitive impairment in old age.

Agree. There may be some benefit for health statistics. Language teaching is a fairly specialised skill. Many preschools and early classes weave it into the curriculum. Imo that works well and can provide some basis for development.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Intel introduces 10th Gen Intel Core H-series for mobile devices
Posted 2-Apr-2020 21:09


COVID-19: new charitable initiative to fund remote monitoring for at-risk patients
Posted 2-Apr-2020 11:07


Huawei introduces the P40 Series of Android-based smartphones
Posted 31-Mar-2020 17:03


Samsung Galaxy Z Flip now available for pre-order in New Zealand
Posted 31-Mar-2020 16:39


New online learning platform for kids stuck at home during COVID-19 lockdown
Posted 26-Mar-2020 21:35


New 5G Nokia smartphone unveiled as portfolio expands
Posted 26-Mar-2020 17:11


D-Link ANZ launches wireless AC1200 4G LTE router
Posted 26-Mar-2020 16:32


Ring introduces two new video doorbells and new pre-roll technology
Posted 17-Mar-2020 16:59


OPPO uncovers flagship Find X2 Pro smartphone
Posted 17-Mar-2020 16:54


D-Link COVR-2202 mesh Wi-Fi system now protected by McAfee
Posted 17-Mar-2020 16:00


Spark Sport opens its platform up to all New Zealanders at no charge
Posted 17-Mar-2020 10:04


Spark launches 5G Starter Fund
Posted 8-Mar-2020 19:19


TRENDnet launches high-performance WiFi Mesh Router System
Posted 5-Mar-2020 08:48


Sony boosts full-frame lens line-up with introduction of FE 20mm F1.8 G large-aperture ultra-wide-angle prime Lens
Posted 5-Mar-2020 08:44


Vector and Spark teamed up on smart metering initiative
Posted 5-Mar-2020 08:42



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.