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  # 1958594 15-Feb-2018 12:55
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I also thought Collins interview was good, but I really cannot see her toning herself down. She will be the big boss to the populous and also to her party. Not ideal. Adams was Mrs English. Bridges I still prefer as he is clean, he is baggage free. Clean start. New beginnings and so on. Being mild, Id expect a quiet National party in behind the scenes. JC I can see internal squabbles


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  # 1958596 15-Feb-2018 12:58
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Has everyone forgotten that Collins lied to the PM and was demoted for a long time. She is very self serving and cannot be trusted. Even although she would be a good opposition leader she could well cause more harm than good. Her dealing with the Chinese are also not clear.


 
 
 
 


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  # 1958600 15-Feb-2018 13:07
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Pumpedd:

 

Has everyone forgotten that Collins lied to the PM and was demoted for a long time. She is very self serving and cannot be trusted. Even although she would be a good opposition leader she could well cause more harm than good. Her dealing with the Chinese are also not clear.

 

 

I think her dealings with the Chinese was investigated and found to have done nothing wrong. Thing with politiics, is you only have to act in a way that raises the QUESTION and you are done for. 

 

I think there is a trait that I see in aid/NGO workers that I also see in politicians I am not sure I could find a nice way to describe it. I think also there is degree of self serving in all politicians.

 

Your comment that she would be a good leader of the opposition, is fair, but I think the extension of that is she may not be an ideal choice as PM. To that end I do wonder if a Bridges/Collins leader/co-leader thing would be ideal, however I am unsure if Collins would ever be prepared to permanently accept 2IC. I think her ambition has always been PM.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  # 1958602 15-Feb-2018 13:26
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networkn:

 

 

 

Your mind sounds like it was made up well before the facts were in and nothing was going to dissuade you regardless.  Who exactly are her mates that investigated? What was the actual link between the investigators and her?

 

I am not fully aware of the entire circumstances, but MP's are not required to work 24/7. If she went in her own time, then I don't see the issue. Sometimes I travel for work, when I am there, I might choose to take a movie in the middle of the day, if I have a large gap of time before another appointment, or have a lunch at a nice restaurant. Sometimes my wife might join me or I meet with friends in an area, might appear to some as not 100% right, but there is nothing nefarious in it. 

 

 

This happened years ago so we've all had a chance to become acquainted with the facts.

 

I don't care what you do on your work trips until they are tax payer funded.

 

JC got her snout in the tax payer funded trough and couldn't resist the temptation to enrich herself. Pretty embarrassing for someone who is running for leader - what a stick to beat her with !!

 

http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/timeline-judith-collins-and-oravida-2014050512

 

 


SJB

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  # 1958608 15-Feb-2018 13:50
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Mitchell could be another John Key personality wise apparently. Anybody heard him in front of the media?


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  # 1958609 15-Feb-2018 14:00
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elpenguino:

 

 

 

JC got her snout in the tax payer funded trough and couldn't resist the temptation to enrich herself. Pretty embarrassing for someone who is running for leader - what a stick to beat her with !!

 

http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/timeline-judith-collins-and-oravida-2014050512

 

 

 

 

That's interesting reading. Was there an investigation? Was she found to have mis used or misappropriated funds? 

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1958621 15-Feb-2018 14:31
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networkn:

 

elpenguino:

 

JC got her snout in the tax payer funded trough and couldn't resist the temptation to enrich herself. Pretty embarrassing for someone who is running for leader - what a stick to beat her with !!

 

http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/timeline-judith-collins-and-oravida-2014050512

 

 

That's interesting reading. Was there an investigation? Was she found to have mis used or misappropriated funds? 

 

 

It reads to me like a lot of innuendo and attempted guilt by association.  (What exactly does Williamson's sacking have to do with this for example)

 

  • Corporate makes donation to political party - hence any involvement that MPs have with that corporate must be corruption.
  • Collins attends a dinner with businesspeople (outside of her official duties) while on a government-funded trip - hence it must be corruption, even though her husband is working there.
  • Collins visits a company after concluding her official business - hence she must be hiding something because she said "on the way to the airport" in the chronological sense rather than in the physical sense.

It's all a bit pathetic really.

 

 

 

For the record, there was an investigation.  Collins was cleared of any wrongdoing whatsoever.

 

She was completely exonerated. So yeah - a great stick to beat her with.

 

Edit:  - Oops, the link is the exoneration of the other allegation that Collins was subject to.   Here is a better link.

 

Prime Minister John Key [has received] advice from the Cabinet Office that he says clears the Justice Minister of breaching Cabinet rules.


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  # 1958630 15-Feb-2018 14:41
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6FIEND:

 

networkn:

 

elpenguino:

 

JC got her snout in the tax payer funded trough and couldn't resist the temptation to enrich herself. Pretty embarrassing for someone who is running for leader - what a stick to beat her with !!

 

http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/timeline-judith-collins-and-oravida-2014050512

 

 

That's interesting reading. Was there an investigation? Was she found to have mis used or misappropriated funds? 

 

 

It reads to me like a lot of innuendo and attempted guilt by association.  (What exactly does Williamson's sacking have to do with this for example)

 

  • Corporate makes donation to political party - hence any involvement that MPs have with that corporate must be corruption.
  • Collins attends a dinner with businesspeople (outside of her official duties) while on a government-funded trip - hence it must be corruption, even though her husband is working there.
  • Collins visits a company after concluding her official business - hence she must be hiding something because she said "on the way to the airport" in the chronological sense rather than in the physical sense.

It's all a bit pathetic really.

 

 

 

For the record, there was an investigation.  Collins was cleared of any wrongdoing whatsoever.

 

She was completely exonerated. So yeah - a great stick to beat her with.

 

Edit:  - Oops, the link is the exoneration of the other allegation that Collins was subject to.   I'll update it shortly.

 

 

So why would JC attend a business meeting when her ministerial portfolio does not include businesses in this line of work?

 

Why is it unimportant (or 'pathetic') that her husband (and by extension , herself) benefits by her meeting with the foreign business owners?

 

Why aren't transcripts of her meetings released? 

 

Remember she is being paid by the taxpayer during this time. Taxpayers also fund her travel and accommodation.

 

 

 

I know you are a dyed in the wool national supporter, but even JK thought her behaviour was unacceptable.

 

 


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  # 1958631 15-Feb-2018 14:48
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@elpenguino  I am by no means a dyed in the wool National supporter.  As I've previously mentioned, I voted for them in the last election but that was the first time in more than a decade...

 

As I said above.  It's all smear and innuendo.   She was investigated and cleared of any wrongdoing.

 

JK was smart to demote her while the investigation happened, but equally smart to promote her back into cabinet once the investigation was concluded.

 

 


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  # 1958632 15-Feb-2018 14:48
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elpenguino:

 

So why would JC attend a business meeting when her ministerial portfolio does not include businesses in this line of work?

 

 

To go with her Husband who is in that line of work?

 

 

Why is it unimportant (or 'pathetic') that her husband (and by extension , herself) benefits by her meeting with the foreign business owners?

 

 

 

What benefit? Do you have some evidence they received funds related to this ?

 

 

Why aren't transcripts of her meetings released? 

 

 

It wasn't an official meeting under her capacity was a minister?

 

 

 

 

Remember she is being paid by the taxpayer during this time. Taxpayers also fund her travel and accommodation.

 

 

Does this mean 24/7 she must be working? Is she not allowed to go to dinner with her Husband? Do you work 24 hours a day for your employer?

 

 

I know you are a dyed in the wool national supporter, but even JK thought her behaviour was unacceptable.

 

 

I don't have any particular love for JC. I think Nationals *policies* are better for NZ, but I don't care the name of the party I vote for, I care who will do the most to help NZ.

 

If you can provide some actual evidence to support your claim she did something wrong, I am happy to take a look at that with an open mind. Can't see how that's likely given she is back in Parliment. If you believe she was given a free pass, who do you believe gave her this pass? Who investigated her that had any particular interest in letting her off the hook?

 

 

 

 


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  # 1958635 15-Feb-2018 14:52
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networkn:

 

elpenguino:

 

 

 

JC got her snout in the tax payer funded trough and couldn't resist the temptation to enrich herself. Pretty embarrassing for someone who is running for leader - what a stick to beat her with !!

 

http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/timeline-judith-collins-and-oravida-2014050512

 

 

 

 

That's interesting reading. Was there an investigation? Was she found to have mis used or misappropriated funds? 

 

 

 

 

Always a very grey area this particular case. In one sense there was no real case for conflict of interest because her husband was not a shareholder in the company. There was always a aura of abuse of position, but never a clear case like some of the other scandals we've seen over the years. Probably primarily because of the number of interactions between JC and Oravida

 

But probably the biggest reason it was blown up was because the media knew they'd get a fiery reaction, there'd be a juicy scandal and it would be hot news for as long as they could drag it out. On the other hand, a scandal with Key was brushed aside, and it wouldn't gain half as much media attention.

 

I remember thinking at the time that it wasn't really serious infraction on her part, predominantly media hype. But the media causes more serious damage than anything. It will never be put to rest, it would need to be something she learns to ignore, and she would need to tread VERY carefully to never bring it up again. Possible, but very hard.


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  # 1958640 15-Feb-2018 15:20
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networkn:

 

 

 

I don't have any particular love for JC. I think Nationals *policies* are better for NZ, but I don't care the name of the party I vote for, I care who will do the most to help NZ.

 

If you can provide some actual evidence to support your claim she did something wrong, I am happy to take a look at that with an open mind. Can't see how that's likely given she is back in Parliment. If you believe she was given a free pass, who do you believe gave her this pass? Who investigated her that had any particular interest in letting her off the hook?

 

 

So , assuming you voted for national, how did you feel about the state house sell off when the size of the house crisis was already laid bare?

 

Did that seem like a party with the interests of all NZers at heart?


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  # 1958642 15-Feb-2018 15:27
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elpenguino:

 

networkn:

 

 

 

I don't have any particular love for JC. I think Nationals *policies* are better for NZ, but I don't care the name of the party I vote for, I care who will do the most to help NZ.

 

If you can provide some actual evidence to support your claim she did something wrong, I am happy to take a look at that with an open mind. Can't see how that's likely given she is back in Parliment. If you believe she was given a free pass, who do you believe gave her this pass? Who investigated her that had any particular interest in letting her off the hook?

 

 

So , assuming you voted for national, how did you feel about the state house sell off when the size of the house crisis was already laid bare?

 

Did that seem like a party with the interests of all NZers at heart?

 

 

Interesting change of direction. Do you have some evidence which shows JC did something specifically wrong or illegal? If you have no evidence, why do you still think she did something wrong? Do you not believe in the legal system in NZ? 

 

Assuming you voted for Labour, do you agree with every single policy they release? We could trade blows on how each Parties policies affect NZ if you like? 

 

For the record, I felt that National didn't do enough around housing, however, I believe in the market. I believe they (National) should have slowed the purchase of NZ Land and Property, and I support Labours decision to do this, just not how they will go about it. 

 

I don't believe that Labours policies on how they intend to fix the housing crisis will work, esp since I can't seem them being able to deliver it. If the housing market cools, it's as likely other factors that contributed. You are welcome to take this up in the other thread where we hold Labour accountable if you wish.

 

 

 

 


gzt

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  # 1958644 15-Feb-2018 15:28
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tdgeek:

another option, weird as it may be  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/101464323/could-a-dark-horse-be-the-surprise-winner-in-national-leadership-contest


Exactly. This isn't the kind of contest where candidates must register.

The entire caucus goes into a room and one person comes out as the new party leader potential future prime minister. It's that simple. It could be anyone on the day. Including people who rule themselves out the day before.

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