So it begins...

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Ultimate Geek
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#1959250 16-Feb-2018 17:22

MaxLV:
There has been little mentioned about the unions as yet, but Labour's unionist policies are the singularly most frightening. We'll hear a lot more about them in near future.

They're only frightening to those who will be 'disadvantaged' by them. Those of us who benefit will no doubt disagree with you.

Personally I won't be disadvataged, nor my employer because I know that everybody at my workplace gets payed more than fairly. Unions overstep their mandate and exert more influence than is reasonable. See the post earlier by @netwokrn

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tdgeek

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#1959257 16-Feb-2018 17:23

rjt123:
MaxLV:
Rikkitic:

And National is not subject to self-serving business interests? I honestly don't see much difference in principle between the two.

The difference is that the Labour/union 'association' is public knowledge, is easily verifiable by anyone that wants to verify the association, and voter has the choice to accept or reject any possible consequences of voting for Labour and it's association influenced policies.

The National party on the other hand conduct their associations with their backers in secret, behind closed doors, and over cups of tea in cafes. Anyone voting for National has no knowledge of the influence the backers are having on the political party and the policies they're voting for.

Two answers. Firstly regarding the term s"self serving",11 my point earlier was that all parties are subject to self-serving" interests, not just national.

Secondly, it doesn't really matter who influences policy, voters vote for how policy will affect them. Likewise a party leader, voters vote depending on how they like the party leader, and what values/views they hold, not on how they were selected. So I have no objection to either labour's or national's selection process, but while the influence of the unions remain over the labour party the leader and their policies will be unionist orientated and I therefore will be absolutely opposed to them.

Why this thread headed to the gutter is the inference that labour and unions self serve each other. But as I explained and you agree they all do.

I’m not in favour of unions and the ECA has largely taken them out of play. If you have a good employer you don’t need it. Some industries aren’t looking after the employees I consider health one of those so there is a place for checks and balances. Overall the ECA has allowed a better industrial relation between many employers and employees.

If employees want to join they can and allowing a union to enter at any time is on the surface a bit medieval. Especially to canvas for memberships. But if everyone plays the game then it’s all out in the open. No harm no foul. If an employer was dodgy I’d leave rather than join a union but it’s there if anyone wants it. The unions won’t make a revival. Employers know how to get and keep good staff. If an employer was scared of the unions I’d need to ask myself why

The days of strikes and 15% pay rises are in a the museum

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#1959260 16-Feb-2018 17:36

rjt123:
MaxLV:
There has been little mentioned about the unions as yet, but Labour's unionist policies are the singularly most frightening. We'll hear a lot more about them in near future.

They're only frightening to those who will be 'disadvantaged' by them. Those of us who benefit will no doubt disagree with you.

Personally I won't be disadvataged, nor my employer because I know that everybody at my workplace gets payed more than fairly. Unions overstep their mandate and exert more influence than is reasonable. See the post earlier by @netwokrn

If they overstepped their mandate they will be litigated. But I know what you mean, let’s say over zealous. If they wish to grow their numbers they need to act 2018 not 1978. They also need to embrace industrial relations and have a workable employer relationship. You may laugh and so may I. I may well be eating humble pie at the same time, but 2018 won’t wear 1978 union behaviour. Even union people that do act well, for most industries we are ok thanks, have a nice day. Some aren’t. They may add value there.

mrfte

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#1959262 16-Feb-2018 17:38

MaxLV:

There has been little mentioned about the unions as yet, but Labour's unionist policies are the singularly most frightening. We'll hear a lot more about them in near future.

They're only frightening to those who will be 'disadvantaged' by them. Those of us who benefit will no doubt disagree with you.

Going by the Charter schools issue alone, all the parents of the kids who are in Charter school are happy the way it works out for them. These kids can not fit into a normal school. Forget wage issues, corruption, favouritism.. etc that comes with the unions. If they are unable to put a child's life as a priority over anything else, they should not exist.

tdgeek

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#1959264 16-Feb-2018 17:42

I read today that Bridges is polarising and not well liked. Is that true?

mrfte

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Master Geek

#1959274 16-Feb-2018 17:45

Astute and business minded. But needs to be a lot closer to the centre to win any major votes.

tdgeek

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#1959284 16-Feb-2018 18:00

mrfte:
MaxLV:

There has been little mentioned about the unions as yet, but Labour's unionist policies are the singularly most frightening. We'll hear a lot more about them in near future.

They're only frightening to those who will be 'disadvantaged' by them. Those of us who benefit will no doubt disagree with you.

Going by the Charter schools issue alone, all the parents of the kids who are in Charter school are happy the way it works out for them. These kids can not fit into a normal school. Forget wage issues, corruption, favouritism.. etc that comes with the unions. If they are unable to put a child's life as a priority over anything else, they should not exist.

I agree

Reading about this topic later but not in depth I gather that many schools can make minor adjustments to comply. Given that Labour is supposed to have a greater social bend, I’d be very surprised and extremely disappointed if This niche education facility failed
You win some and you lose some. Going by JA’s style I would expect that the unions if they have the large input here that is mentioned will end up taking this issue on the chin. I have no doubt about that. Vulnerable kids are her be all and end all.

Geektastic

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#1959364 16-Feb-2018 22:37

gzt:
Geektastic: Unions have very odd powers. For example, if you want to have a NZ Press Card you can only get it by being a union member...!

Can you provide more information? Most professions require membership of a professional body with a code of ethics etc. I'm thinking it's that rather than a union as such.

Press cards are issued by Et Tu or whatever it's called these days, on behalf of the International Federation of Journalists. Definitely nothing to do with being a journalist professional body.

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#1959371 16-Feb-2018 22:40

Rikkitic:

With journalists it's also a union. I belonged to the Dutch one. A lot of the membership criteria have to do with establishing that you really are a bona-fide journalist, and not just a freeloader. But the usual union business is also part of it.

Edit: I forgot to answer your question. The advantage, other than being part of a union, is accreditation. A press card gives you access to a lot of things closed to the ordinary public.

Yes I get the benefit of the Press Card - it's why I have one - what I do not get is why I would need to join a union which, aside from sending me the card, offers me nothing. I do not need union representation in my workplace. I am my workplace. I do not tend to disagree with my decisions nor call myself out on strike...

I'm very happy to pay for the card - not at all happy to have to pay a labour union to get it, however.

gzt

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#1959386 16-Feb-2018 23:07

What are the benefits of your press card in NZ?

Pumpedd

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#1959394 16-Feb-2018 23:19

tdgeek:
mrfte:

MaxLV:

There has been little mentioned about the unions as yet, but Labour's unionist policies are the singularly most frightening. We'll hear a lot more about them in near future.

They're only frightening to those who will be 'disadvantaged' by them. Those of us who benefit will no doubt disagree with you.

Going by the Charter schools issue alone, all the parents of the kids who are in Charter school are happy the way it works out for them. These kids can not fit into a normal school. Forget wage issues, corruption, favouritism.. etc that comes with the unions. If they are unable to put a child's life as a priority over anything else, they should not exist.

I agree

Reading about this topic later but not in depth I gather that many schools can make minor adjustments to comply. Given that Labour is supposed to have a greater social bend, I’d be very surprised and extremely disappointed if This niche education facility failed
You win some and you lose some. Going by JA’s style I would expect that the unions if they have the large input here that is mentioned will end up taking this issue on the chin. I have no doubt about that. Vulnerable kids are her be all and end all.

Its way more than a minor adjustment!!!! Where do you get your info?

They need to comply with state curriculum, and the teachers need some special state school thing as well. Thats quite major.

tdgeek

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#1959413 17-Feb-2018 00:00

Pumpedd:

tdgeek:
mrfte:

MaxLV:

There has been little mentioned about the unions as yet, but Labour's unionist policies are the singularly most frightening. We'll hear a lot more about them in near future.

They're only frightening to those who will be 'disadvantaged' by them. Those of us who benefit will no doubt disagree with you.

Going by the Charter schools issue alone, all the parents of the kids who are in Charter school are happy the way it works out for them. These kids can not fit into a normal school. Forget wage issues, corruption, favouritism.. etc that comes with the unions. If they are unable to put a child's life as a priority over anything else, they should not exist.

I agree

Reading about this topic later but not in depth I gather that many schools can make minor adjustments to comply. Given that Labour is supposed to have a greater social bend, I’d be very surprised and extremely disappointed if This niche education facility failed
You win some and you lose some. Going by JA’s style I would expect that the unions if they have the large input here that is mentioned will end up taking this issue on the chin. I have no doubt about that. Vulnerable kids are her be all and end all.

Its way more than a minor adjustment!!!! Where do you get your info?

They need to comply with state curriculum, and the teachers need some special state school thing as well. Thats quite major.

Did a google and read an article. They seemed to comply with most of the terms and as the article said, minor adjustments for others. Teachers I recall need to be registered but there was also provision for some form of other non registered status as well, which is also used at times in state schools. Perhaps that one article was biased, but it certainly didnt seem to be a shakeup of everything thats for sure.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11992727

tdgeek

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#1959502 17-Feb-2018 10:31

Interesting opinion piece by Duncan Garner

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/101512975/duncan-garner-want-the-nuclear-option-pick-crusher

There is a lot to like about a tough hardnosed leader. Loud, get the job done, doesn't matter if I'm not Ms Popular, the job got done. Factor in rattling JA. If she is louder and bangs away at Labour in Parliament, even if its rubbish, you are more visible if your in the news every day, for whatever reason.

There is a downside though. I doubt that JA would get rattled. She would probably smile and cast it off with a dig, a well worded, polite dig. High road and all that. If that was the case it would show a larger point of difference to Labour, and in a negative way.

The word i the media is that Adams won't feature. Apparenbtly Bridges isn't that well liked, I;m surprised by that, if in fact its correct. I still favour Bridges as he is younger, well educated, experienced, and not brash and loud. I am assuming an articulate leader would give a good impression to the swing voters, and at the end of the day its not about Labour Voters or National voters, they all vote the same way every election, its about the swing voters.

gzt

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#1959523 17-Feb-2018 11:08

When do they vote?

tdgeek

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#1959531 17-Feb-2018 11:20

gzt: When do they vote?

I believe they must decide by 27 Feb when Bill leaves, so I imagine just before then, day before probably

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