So it begins...

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517 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#1961238 20-Feb-2018 21:53

The challenge is whether the National MPs are all in the party for a common cause or for personal interests. If for personal interests then not having the leader that individual prefers (because it hinders their personal agenda), then they are unlikely to support the new leader. If on the other hand they are in the National party because they genuinely believe in the general principles that the Party stands for, and are in it for the party's sake, not their own interests, then they will support the new leader.

A team performs best when everyone has the same goal, if not, then they are toast.

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bmt

574 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1961239 20-Feb-2018 21:59

Hard to see Steven Joyce or Judith Collins dragging National over 50% in 2020. Adams and Mitchell.. maybe. Neither have a huge public profile so it'd be as unpredictable as what Jacinda Ardern was before becoming leader.

Apparently Mark Mitchell has been an MP since 2011. First I heard of him was when he was appointed Minister of Defence.. in 2017. Yikes!

rjt123

517 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#1961240 20-Feb-2018 22:04

Rikkitic:
People often look at this kind of thing in a literal way only. Even if this law has little practical value, I think it has important moral value by declaring a clear line. It says that hitting children is wrong. That is a point worth making.

New Zealand society must be in a very bad way if it needed a clear line drawn on this issue.

Is there such a thing as morals these days? Or have they gone out of fashion?

Geektastic

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#1961247 20-Feb-2018 22:45

networkn:

Geektastic:

Thankfully? You sure about that? We'd have a much better government now if he had remained.

Maybe, but imagine him as PM in your worst nightmare?

To be honest, a Labour government is my worst nightmare in that sense - it matters not who is in the top slot.

I agree Little would have been (and indeed continues to be) useless.

GV27

5429 posts

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#1961269 21-Feb-2018 06:43

MaxLV:

Little was elected mainly in reaction to Cunliffe, and didn't really have the voter support Labour needed. Ardern's election as leader was a bit rushed, but it achieved the aim of getting voter support, the government benches, a real generational change for the party, and hopefully for the coalition government.

Generational change that immediately dropped all suggestion of means-testing or increasing the age of super eligibility and shirked away from their grand housing projects? Sounds like exactly the same sort of leadership that everyone was so keen to get rid of when it was the Nats.

gzt

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#1961287 21-Feb-2018 07:22

MaxLV: BTW I'm not up with how National elect their leaders, do they have 'run off' elections?

I believe so. Based on Stuff and posts from tdgeek they vote and then vote again etc until the last candidate standing has over 50%. I'm not sure if they take tea-breaks in between votes for backstabbing purposes ; ). Either way it will be all about ~~game of thrones ahaem/~~ genuine concerns for the future of the country atm.

gzt

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#1961290 21-Feb-2018 07:28

Psst. I'll swap you two directorships and a consulting contract if you step down in the second round and throw your team ~~under the bus~~ behind my candidate.

Geektastic

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#1961322 21-Feb-2018 08:52

GV27:
MaxLV:

Little was elected mainly in reaction to Cunliffe, and didn't really have the voter support Labour needed. Ardern's election as leader was a bit rushed, but it achieved the aim of getting voter support, the government benches, a real generational change for the party, and hopefully for the coalition government.

Generational change that immediately dropped all suggestion of means-testing or increasing the age of super eligibility and shirked away from their grand housing projects? Sounds like exactly the same sort of leadership that everyone was so keen to get rid of when it was the Nats.

Nothing like having the cold water of reality thrown over your fairytale policies....!

MikeAqua

7616 posts

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#1961345 21-Feb-2018 09:19

rjt123: The challenge is whether the National MPs are all in the party for a common cause or for personal interests. If for personal interests then not having the leader that individual prefers (because it hinders their personal agenda), then they are unlikely to support the new leader. If on the other hand they are in the National party because they genuinely believe in the general principles that the Party stands for, and are in it for the party's sake, not their own interests, then they will support the new leader.

A team performs best when everyone has the same goal, if not, then they are toast.

IMO politicians as general rule are in it for themselves.

National has a strong history of unity. Even the transition from English to Brash was reasonably bloodless. I'll be interested to see how many candidates actually contest the ballot.

Newly selected national leaders have been careful to also include members of rival factions in cabinet/spokesperson positions.

In a strong team you can disagree strongly, but accept the outcome and get on with it. I've seen colleagues bitterly oppose something during discussion, then suck it up and work tirelessly on the agreed action. That's what members of leadership teams are supposed to do.

Mike

networkn

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#1961347 21-Feb-2018 09:21

Geektastic:
GV27:

MaxLV:

Little was elected mainly in reaction to Cunliffe, and didn't really have the voter support Labour needed. Ardern's election as leader was a bit rushed, but it achieved the aim of getting voter support, the government benches, a real generational change for the party, and hopefully for the coalition government.

Generational change that immediately dropped all suggestion of means-testing or increasing the age of super eligibility and shirked away from their grand housing projects? Sounds like exactly the same sort of leadership that everyone was so keen to get rid of when it was the Nats.

Nothing like having the cold water of reality thrown over your fairytale policies....!

Haha classic.

Rikkitic

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#1961380 21-Feb-2018 10:05

networkn:

Haha classic.

Another pointless jibe. We all know how you feel.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

networkn

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#1961382 21-Feb-2018 10:09

Rikkitic:

networkn:

Haha classic.

Another pointless jibe. We all know how you feel.

Actually, the Jibe was the one before, though surely even you can see the truth in it?

Fred99

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#1961901 21-Feb-2018 22:52

bmt:

Apparently Mark Mitchell has been an MP since 2011. First I heard of him was when he was appointed Minister of Defence.. in 2017. Yikes!

He does have history:

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/21-02-2018/why-aspiring-national-leader-mark-mitchells-war-for-profit-past-matters/

But hopefully not much of a future.

networkn

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#1961926 22-Feb-2018 00:21

Fred99:

bmt:

Apparently Mark Mitchell has been an MP since 2011. First I heard of him was when he was appointed Minister of Defence.. in 2017. Yikes!

He does have history:

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/21-02-2018/why-aspiring-national-leader-mark-mitchells-war-for-profit-past-matters/

But hopefully not much of a future.

What is *your* exact concern?

GV27

5429 posts

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#1961986 22-Feb-2018 07:59

"Academic thinks 'war-for-profit' is bad in opinion stunner no one saw coming"

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