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268 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1951597 4-Feb-2018 20:43
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Fred99:

 

GV27:
Fred99:

 

GV27:

Try one that stretches back to 1999. Or are we wilfully ignoring that?

 

 

 

No:

 

 

 

 

 

 

House prices increased in NZ - expressed as a multiple of household income - from about 5 when John Key took the reins - to about 8 when he quit.

 



And? People here seem to be under the illusion this solely happened under National's watch. That simply isn't the case, and Labour were just as guilty as National were of doing bugger all about it.

 

The widening gap in unaffordability and in Akl vs (rest of) NZ house prices DID happen under Key. 

 

In the Trump thread I complain about "whataboutism" - using hand-picked failures of the past, with the benefit of hindsight to make unfair comparisons.

 

The house price:income ratio in NZ is now terribly unaffordable - and needs to be fixed - before interest rates rise.  Going back three and more parliamentary terms to argue that "they" didn't do anything about it - then turning that around to melt like a snowflake when someone finally does hope to do something about it - and to argue that "the market" will sort it out when the market seems to have failed (for many NZers) is extremely disingenuous, in my humble opinion.

 

 

Yes. I'm being disingenious by pointing out that house prices and government inaction have happened under both parties. Labour MPs like Twyford have stated they wish they did more. when Labour was in power pre-2008. And National, like Labour were, were more than capable (when in Govt) of putting places the things they think are suddenly urgently required once they're out of Government.

 

Is there someone in this thread 'melting like a snowflake' and arguing in favour of leaving it all in the hands of the market? I'm certainly not. I'm in the market for a first house, so I would really likely to see cheaper housing and expansion of the Axis and other affordable housing plans. You wouldn't by chance be trying to put words in my mouth, would you? 


gzt

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  Reply # 1951626 4-Feb-2018 23:18
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GV27:

gzt:
Pumpedd:


gzt:
elpenguino: I don't think Bennett has the smarts to succeed - I suspect she is dep leader only to bring a show of gender balance.

It seems to me she handled difficult portfolios quite well in the media spotlight. I can't imagine anyone else doing as well with those portfolios. Instant name recognition. Personally I'd consider her the leading candidate.


 


I blame her for the housing mess..she was minister of housing....she also stripped out the welfare system that contributed substantially to child poverty.



All under the leadership of John Key as I recall. Is there an alternative universe in which the national party does not do this kind of stuff?


Boy is your mind going to be blown if you look at what happened to house prices under Labour from 1999 - 2008 and what they did about it.


You are way off topic. Neither quote mentioned house prices, or the labour party.

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1951661 5-Feb-2018 00:22
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House prices at the lower end will require economic collapse or economic overdrive to shift meaningfully. Top end prices will possibly back off a shade if the foreign buyer ban is effected.
Based on conversations with agents and builders, I'm really not sure that reality is going to permit much in the way of significant house building. The capacity just doesn't seem to be there. Builders in Queenstown are having to pay $50+ per hour to get staff, I was told last week.





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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1951678 5-Feb-2018 06:40
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gzt:
GV27:

 

gzt:
Pumpedd:

 

 

 

gzt:
elpenguino: I don't think Bennett has the smarts to succeed - I suspect she is dep leader only to bring a show of gender balance.

It seems to me she handled difficult portfolios quite well in the media spotlight. I can't imagine anyone else doing as well with those portfolios. Instant name recognition. Personally I'd consider her the leading candidate.

 

I blame her for the housing mess..she was minister of housing....she also stripped out the welfare system that contributed substantially to child poverty.

 

 

 


All under the leadership of John Key as I recall. Is there an alternative universe in which the national party does not do this kind of stuff?

 

 

 

Boy is your mind going to be blown if you look at what happened to house prices under Labour from 1999 - 2008 and what they did about it.

 


You are way off topic. Neither quote mentioned house prices, or the labour party.

 

Apologies, it's only just dawned on me you were probably referring to the state house sell-down. 


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  Reply # 1951734 5-Feb-2018 09:03
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Fred99:

 

in my humble opinion.

 

 

I am not sure I've ever seen you express a humble opinion :) 

 

 


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  Reply # 1951840 5-Feb-2018 10:31
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It is being reported that Bill English has said that he will step aside "at some time" for a younger leader but not yet. He is not giving a timeframe now which tells me he is doing the numbers and is aware that he may not be able to see off a challenge





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1952080 5-Feb-2018 16:48
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MikeB4:

 

It is being reported that Bill English has said that he will step aside "at some time" for a younger leader but not yet. He is not giving a timeframe now which tells me he is doing the numbers and is aware that he may not be able to see off a challenge

 

 

 

 

Succession planning is a core requirement of leadership, regardless of their intentions to leave at the present time. I don't know what Bill's intentions are in the short term, but in the long term every leader will step down at some point.

 

Labour could have avoided the ghastly series of leadership coups if this had occurred better under Clark.


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  Reply # 1952913 7-Feb-2018 13:07
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I don't think leader is National's primary issue at the moment.  Their problem is the support for centre-right politics in NZ caps out at <48%.

 

ACT voters would otherwise give their party vote to national in the absence of an electorate seat.

 

Maori Party to labour.

 

Greens to labour.

 

NZ first have lost voters almost entirely to labour in the polls.

 

There isn't much more swing-vote out there for national to grab, unless they go further left and doing so might alienate their right of centre voters.

 

The only scenario I can see is one where national go further left to grab 5 seats from the leftish-centre in parliament and lose 5 seats from right-of-centre to ACT. 

 

Possibly an increased environmental emphasis could also steal a few non-core green voters, but that would be marginal.





Mike

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  Reply # 1956237 13-Feb-2018 11:28
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MikeAqua:

 

I don't think leader is National's primary issue at the moment.  Their problem is the support for centre-right politics in NZ caps out at <48%.

 

ACT voters would otherwise give their party vote to national in the absence of an electorate seat.

 

Maori Party to labour.

 

Greens to labour.

 

NZ first have lost voters almost entirely to labour in the polls.

 

There isn't much more swing-vote out there for national to grab, unless they go further left and doing so might alienate their right of centre voters.

 

The only scenario I can see is one where national go further left to grab 5 seats from the leftish-centre in parliament and lose 5 seats from right-of-centre to ACT. 

 

Possibly an increased environmental emphasis could also steal a few non-core green voters, but that would be marginal.

 

 

I agree, not much swing vote potential at all. And while everyone will disagree/argue etc at Labour, they arent doing a lot wrong at the moment, keeping good media relationships.

 

Latest news is

 

Bill English expected to step down as leader

 

Pity, as he is a sound leader, all I can see is fights and disharmony when the gloves come off for the contenders, assuming it is to be contended and not already pretty much decided


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  Reply # 1956262 13-Feb-2018 11:32
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I pick Simon Bridges.

 

 

 

He is quite good I think

 

Kept out of controversy

 

Young to match Labours leader

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1956263 13-Feb-2018 11:35
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Nationals strongest player is Bill English, his value to NZ cannot be overestimated. Maybe as someone here comment, he is a little bit bland, but I'll take bland and knowledgeable over "appealing" and clueless every day of the week.

 

I don't think Stephen Joyce is in Bill English's league for knowledge and understanding of economics and economy. 

 

BE runs circles around JA.

 

 


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  Reply # 1956265 13-Feb-2018 11:37
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tdgeek:

 

Young to match Labours leader

 

 

It worries me that this alone seems to be a factor in electing someone. I don't consider it an asset automatically. 


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  Reply # 1956269 13-Feb-2018 11:42
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If they give it to Paula they are signing their death warrant. She is deputy so if she doesn't get she will be pissed.


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  Reply # 1956271 13-Feb-2018 11:43
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networkn:

 

tdgeek:

 

Young to match Labours leader

 

 

It worries me that this alone seems to be a factor in electing someone. I don't consider it an asset automatically. 

 

 

I partly agree. If Bridges does get it and Id wager the deputy is on the younger side, its to give a perception of vitality. However, the PM doesnt make all the rules, the MP's and support provide the information, and an MP of a Ministry will have more knowledge and will make a recommendation to the PM, along with any supporting Ministries, such as Finance. Unless any leader is an autocrat like Trump, the party team runs the show, the PM signs it off, and yes he does have sway there, but its a team effort, so I dont really see too much of an issue.


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  Reply # 1956279 13-Feb-2018 11:59
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Pumpedd:

 

If they give it to Paula they are signing their death warrant. She is deputy so if she doesn't get she will be pissed.

 

 

Thats my worry, infighting. Simon Bridges is the clear choice, but I can see infighting, but I assume all that was hashed out at the recent conference

 

As she gnashes her teeth she will advise she is 100% behind him!


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