So it begins...

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Networkn
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#1956280 13-Feb-2018 12:00

tdgeek:

networkn:

tdgeek:

Young to match Labours leader

It worries me that this alone seems to be a factor in electing someone. I don't consider it an asset automatically.

I partly agree. If Bridges does get it and Id wager the deputy is on the younger side, its to give a perception of vitality. However, the PM doesnt make all the rules, the MP's and support provide the information, and an MP of a Ministry will have more knowledge and will make a recommendation to the PM, along with any supporting Ministries, such as Finance. Unless any leader is an autocrat like Trump, the party team runs the show, the PM signs it off, and yes he does have sway there, but its a team effort, so I dont really see too much of an issue.

Why bother even having a leader then, just have a party? John Key was pretty knowledgeable. He had finance and business experience and was pretty well thought of as a trader on the markets, he was also personable and real and these are characteristics that made him a good leader. He didn't have the depth of knowledge of someone like English, but then I don't think there are many in NZ politics in his league (I thought Robertson showed some promise but comments in the past 2 weeks have proven otherwise). It worries me we don't really appear to have anyone coming through the ranks on either side, of his league. You at least need someone who can look at information given to them and know if they are at least in the ball park.

A pretty figurehead doesn't work for me. I expect my leaders to be intelligent and knowledgeable and have experience in leadership. I'd suggest our current leader MIGHT be one of those things. I know you aren't worried if people learn on the job, but for me, paying that sort of money and with that sort of responsibility, it's irresponsible.

I see today that Labour wants to review public CEO renumerations. Our PM would likely be in for a massive pay cut if her "qualifications" to lead were actually assessed.

networkn

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#1956281 13-Feb-2018 12:01

Wow, he actually stepped down. What a nightmare. Is leaving parliament as well. No new leader announced. Caucus didn't know and didn't discuss during recent conference.

NZ politics will be significantly worse off as a result.

tdgeek

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#1956283 13-Feb-2018 12:05

networkn:

tdgeek:

networkn:

tdgeek:

Young to match Labours leader

It worries me that this alone seems to be a factor in electing someone. I don't consider it an asset automatically.

I partly agree. If Bridges does get it and Id wager the deputy is on the younger side, its to give a perception of vitality. However, the PM doesnt make all the rules, the MP's and support provide the information, and an MP of a Ministry will have more knowledge and will make a recommendation to the PM, along with any supporting Ministries, such as Finance. Unless any leader is an autocrat like Trump, the party team runs the show, the PM signs it off, and yes he does have sway there, but its a team effort, so I dont really see too much of an issue.

Why bother even having a leader then, just have a party? John Key was pretty knowledgeable. He had finance and business experience and was pretty well thought of as a trader on the markets, he was also personable and real and these are characteristics that made him a good leader. He didn't have the depth of knowledge of someone like English, but then I don't think there are many in NZ politics in his league (I thought Robertson showed some promise but comments in the past 2 weeks have proven otherwise). It worries me we don't really appear to have anyone coming through the ranks on either side, of his league. You at least need someone who can look at information given to them and know if they are at least in the ball park.

A pretty figurehead doesn't work for me. I expect my leaders to be intelligent and knowledgeable and have experience in leadership. I'd suggest our current leader MIGHT be one of those things. I know you aren't worried if people learn on the job, but for me, paying that sort of money and with that sort of responsibility, it's irresponsible.

I see today that Labour wants to review public CEO renumerations. Our PM would likely be in for a massive pay cut if her "qualifications" to lead were actually assessed.

Many CEO's lead a company with little or no knowledge of the company. Their role is to lead the team, the team's role is to know everything

tdgeek

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#1956284 13-Feb-2018 12:09

networkn:

Wow, he actually stepped down. What a nightmare. Is leaving parliament as well. No new leader announced. Caucus didn't know and didn't discuss during recent conference.

NZ politics will be significantly worse off as a result.

Significantly worse off? He is a good man, but that's a bit of a stretch. A mini me of JK I would have thought, solid and capable. National wants new blood, a refresh, a reset, better now than later, and hopefully no public infighting

networkn

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#1956286 13-Feb-2018 12:10

I'd like to see Bridges spend time working on Public speaking, understanding more stuff and working on his debating skills. I don't know how good those skills are for him now, but they could always be better.

Bill English had all the facts and figures, what I don't think he did brilliantly, possibly till the end of the campaign, was find a way to make them relatable.

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#1956287 13-Feb-2018 12:12

tdgeek:

networkn:

Wow, he actually stepped down. What a nightmare. Is leaving parliament as well. No new leader announced. Caucus didn't know and didn't discuss during recent conference.

NZ politics will be significantly worse off as a result.

Significantly worse off? He is a good man, but that's a bit of a stretch. A mini me of JK I would have thought, solid and capable. National wants new blood, a refresh, a reset, better now than later, and hopefully no public infighting

I think you have it wrong. JK wasn't stupid, but he was fronting BE.

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#1956290 13-Feb-2018 12:18

tdgeek:

Many CEO's lead a company with little or no knowledge of the company. Their role is to lead the team, the team's role is to know everything

As someone who deals every single day with CEO's of companies big and small, I cannot agree with that. SOME might, I wouldn't say "many".

Most CEO's I know are well qualified in a field or two, maybe don't know the specific industry initially but understand how to analyze issues and develop strategies. What "expertise" do you think JA holds?

If I speak for myself, I am a capable technical person, I have pretty reasonable communication skills. Finance and details aren't my strong suit, but I know when my finance person brings me numbers, if there is a problem with them with a glance.

I have found big problems with information sent by my accountant in a few minutes because I hold an overview of what's happening within my company. I control the technical direction of the company, though I might take advice or ask others to compile information (though I'd be the one who defined what information was required usually) to help me make decisions.

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tdgeek

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#1956293 13-Feb-2018 12:22

networkn:

tdgeek:

networkn:

Wow, he actually stepped down. What a nightmare. Is leaving parliament as well. No new leader announced. Caucus didn't know and didn't discuss during recent conference.

NZ politics will be significantly worse off as a result.

Significantly worse off? He is a good man, but that's a bit of a stretch. A mini me of JK I would have thought, solid and capable. National wants new blood, a refresh, a reset, better now than later, and hopefully no public infighting

I think you have it wrong. JK wasn't stupid, but he was fronting BE.

I didnt say JK was stupid. I say that his loss was more an issue than Bills.

tdgeek

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#1956294 13-Feb-2018 12:24

networkn:

tdgeek:

Many CEO's lead a company with little or no knowledge of the company. Their role is to lead the team, the team's role is to know everything

As someone who deals every single day with CEO's of companies big and small, I cannot agree with that. SOME might, I wouldn't say "many".

Most CEO's I know are well qualified in a field or two, maybe don't know the specific industry initially but understand how to analyze issues and develop strategies. What "expertise" do you think JA holds?

If I speak for myself, I am a capable technical person, I have pretty reasonable communication skills. Finance and details aren't my strong suit, but I know when my finance person brings me numbers, if there is a problem with them with a glance.

I have found big problems with information sent by my accountant in a few minutes because I hold an overview of what's happening within my company. I control the technical direction of the company, though I might take advice or ask others to compile information (though I'd be the one who defined what information was required usually) to help me make decisions.

I know many CEOs that run companies making toilets one day, TV stations the next, womenswear next time. Im referring to CEO's of larger busineses, hence stating that here, as the Govt is a large business. CEO of a small company isn't really a CEO

tdgeek

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#1956296 13-Feb-2018 12:28

networkn:

tdgeek:

Many CEO's lead a company with little or no knowledge of the company. Their role is to lead the team, the team's role is to know everything

As someone who deals every single day with CEO's of companies big and small, I cannot agree with that. SOME might, I wouldn't say "many".

Most CEO's I know are well qualified in a field or two, maybe don't know the specific industry initially but understand how to analyze issues and develop strategies. What "expertise" do you think JA holds?

If I speak for myself, I am a capable technical person, I have pretty reasonable communication skills. Finance and details aren't my strong suit, but I know when my finance person brings me numbers, if there is a problem with them with a glance.

I have found big problems with information sent by my accountant in a few minutes because I hold an overview of what's happening within my company. I control the technical direction of the company, though I might take advice or ask others to compile information (though I'd be the one who defined what information was required usually) to help me make decisions.

Like any CEO she needs to manage the people that have all the knowledge to get a result. Id argue JK had by far the least knowledge of any PM in recent times, that didnt matter, his underlings did. He lead his team. JK needs to lead her team , time will tell

But this is a thread about Bill E and National's near future yet it always goes back to JA. Maybe that says something. If she was that useless its just a matter of waiting it out till 2020, job done, its not that important.

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#1956388 13-Feb-2018 15:23

tdgeek:

I'd argue JK had by far the least knowledge of any PM in recent times,

Ahem, err excuse me, you might be missing one very important PM. JA makes JK look like an extreme veteran.

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#1956391 13-Feb-2018 15:26

I think this could well be the start of a meltdown for the National Party. Depending on who puts their hat in the ring it could be an epic bloody battle. I sincerely hope it is not. I would like to see either Coleman or Bennett take on Leadership. I hope Bridges or Collins do not and heaven help National if they select Joyce

edit; I hit post too soon

tdgeek

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#1956396 13-Feb-2018 15:37

networkn:

tdgeek:

I'd argue JK had by far the least knowledge of any PM in recent times,

Ahem, err excuse me, you might be missing one very important PM. JA makes JK look like an extreme veteran.

He has more life experience, having made 50 million trading Forex, he has that. Not Govt running qualifications tho. Then he uses his influence to get a ride on the political bus. Then he gets bored and leaves. He was an excellent frontman though, for sure . But he wasnt a lifelong politician, now hes gone to do other things. She cant compare to him, but she is a lifelong politician, as are many in the Beehive

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#1956399 13-Feb-2018 15:40

MikeB4:

I think this could well be the start of a meltdown for the National Party.

If Paula and Co bring out the knives. If Bridges leads and its a revitakised party, it will live long and prosper (C)Spock . Maybe its time for Government to be closer in age to the younger voters rather then be old statesmen? Its 2018 now, maybe thats needed.

networkn

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#1956400 13-Feb-2018 15:46

tdgeek:

He has more life experience, having made 50 million trading Forex, he has that. Not Govt running qualifications tho. Then he uses his influence to get a ride on the political bus. Then he gets bored and leaves. He was an excellent frontman though, for sure . But he wasnt a lifelong politician, now hes gone to do other things. She cant compare to him, but she is a lifelong politician, as are many in the Beehive

Wow, seriously? Bored and left? I don't think so. He led the country well for 9 years, he decided to spend more time with family, and step out of what must be a very stressful job after 9 years. How many people stay in 1 job for 9+ years?

I don't consider lifelong politician as necessarily better, esp ones with no other experience. They can be good, but I wouldn't state that someone who is a lifetime politician is going to be better for the country than one who isn't.

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