Young Labour Summer Camp

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Forums › Politics › Young Labour Summer Camp - Feb 2018

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#2315251 11-Sep-2019 20:47

Mahon:

Rikkitic:

Mahon:

It is getting way more serious with new allegations which if proven show the PM has been lying in parliament. She seems out of her depth.

Maybe you should wait to see if they are proven. Allegations are not evidence of anything.

Its more than an allegation....it was a statement read out in Parliament. You cant make those things up and expect to survive. I just wish it was all more transparent as it has gone on for way too long and is going to do irreparable damage to the party. This should have been all finished by now and NZ business being undertaken rather than fighting fires.

So its been proven, good to know, thanks. Link would be helpful. If the PM has lied, she needs to go as its now a fact.

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Mahon

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#2315262 11-Sep-2019 21:15

tdgeek:

Mahon:

Rikkitic:

Mahon:

It is getting way more serious with new allegations which if proven show the PM has been lying in parliament. She seems out of her depth.

Maybe you should wait to see if they are proven. Allegations are not evidence of anything.

Its more than an allegation....it was a statement read out in Parliament. You cant make those things up and expect to survive. I just wish it was all more transparent as it has gone on for way too long and is going to do irreparable damage to the party. This should have been all finished by now and NZ business being undertaken rather than fighting fires.

So its been proven, good to know, thanks. Link would be helpful. If the PM has lied, she needs to go as its now a fact.

Read Stuff...I actually watched it.

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#2315267 11-Sep-2019 21:27

@Mahon:

tdgeek:

Mahon:

Its more than an allegation....it was a statement read out in Parliament. You cant make those things up and expect to survive. I just wish it was all more transparent as it has gone on for way too long and is going to do irreparable damage to the party. This should have been all finished by now and NZ business being undertaken rather than fighting fires.

So its been proven, good to know, thanks. Link would be helpful. If the PM has lied, she needs to go as its now a fact.

Read Stuff...I actually watched it.

You mean this?

"Paula Bennett claims Grant Robertson and Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern's senior staff knew about alleged sexual assault"

"National Deputy Leader Paula Bennett has claimed Finance Minister Grant Robertson and Jacinda Ardern's staff knew about an alleged sexual assault by a Labour Party staffer."

Where is the statement of fact the the PM knew about it? The article - and the video - is about staff and a MP/Minister. She did not name the PM in full. Perhaps because of lack of evidence?

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GV27

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#2315342 12-Sep-2019 06:44

I believe the "PM lied" bit is focusing on her statements that "no one in her office knew" the allegations were of a sexual nature.

Again, the idea that Ardern is knowingly covering up alleged rapists in her own office doesn't pass the sniff test. Nor has anyone in National conclusively said anything that implies that either, as noted.

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#2315452 12-Sep-2019 09:46

GV27:

I'm just saying that many here are saying it's impossible Ardern didn't know, but the reality is that if she's tried to ask questions and senior party figures out just been outright misleading her, there's every chance she didn't. Nothing I've seen so far rules that out or in, categorically.

So, if this is the case (and I am inclined to believe she wouldn't outrightly lie or cover up an incident such as this) then you have high level party members, well aware of the Summer Camp debacle choosing yet again to keep her in the dark? They have lied so convincingly she believed them without question. What is the motivation? Surely Ardern made quite clear she didn't want shielding from these types of surprises after last time.

No matter what way you want to cut this, there must have been some incredibly poor judgment calls made by many people for this to occur.

Every person involved in the decision to mislead her deliberately must go, surely? If only to make clear as obviously wasn't made clear enough before, that lying to the PM, isn't acceptable.

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#2316430 12-Sep-2019 10:43

Some excerpts from this RNZ article:

"Ms Bennett used parliamentary privilege to name several of the prime minister's most senior staff and a Cabinet minister who she says have known for some time about the allegations.

"However, she admitted her information on who knew what was based on hearsay.

"Ms Bennett said the victims were adamant that Finance Minister Grant Robertson knew but admitted it was based on what she had been told rather than proof.

"Ms Bennett denied that she was using the alleged victims for political gain."

Emphasis added by me. All of this may well be true, but again, accusation is not evidence. Those slavering over this would do well to wait for the outcome of any investigations. The truth will emerge.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Mahon

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#2316434 12-Sep-2019 10:50

Three opinion pieces in NZ Herald today and basically all say the same thing....way too many unanswered questions that the PM must answer. The one I like the most is from Barry Soper who I dont usually enjoy reading...

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12266895

Such is the seriousness of whats going on, the PM needs to stay in NZ and sort it all out, afterall she is the head of the Labour Party. Quite difficult to govern effectively with all this drama surrounding her.

JWR

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#2316438 12-Sep-2019 10:53

This unfortunate business has two aspects: The employment and the legal.

I think the employment issues should have been handled by the party president.

As far as legal aspects go, I would think that we would want the Prime Minister and other ministers to keep completely out of it.

GV27

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#2316442 12-Sep-2019 11:01

JWR:

This unfortunate business has two aspects: The employment and the legal.

I think the employment issues should have been handled by the party president.

As far as legal aspects go, I would think that we would want the Prime Minister and other ministers to keep completely out of it.

Are the staff in MPs' offices employed by the MP or by the Labour Party? This is an important distinction.

JWR

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#2316448 12-Sep-2019 11:15

GV27:

JWR:

This unfortunate business has two aspects: The employment and the legal.

I think the employment issues should have been handled by the party president.

As far as legal aspects go, I would think that we would want the Prime Minister and other ministers to keep completely out of it.

Are the staff in MPs' offices employed by the MP or by the Labour Party? This is an important distinction.

Ok. I accept the point you make there.

However, in this case, the President was involved in the employee complaint.

Therefore, i would assume it was his responsibility.

Rikkitic

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#2316465 12-Sep-2019 12:01

I try to avoid reading the Herald. It is way too much like Fox News for my taste. Opinion (biased) masquerading as news.

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networkn

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#2316563 12-Sep-2019 15:56

Reported by the Herald:

One of the investigating panelists involved in the Labour Party's botched process looking into complaints about a Labour staffer's behaviour is now the acting party president.

Really? Even if this is the process they usually follow, surely, SURELY it occurred to someone this wasn't the best idea? Even from an optics stand point?

tdgeek

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#2316734 12-Sep-2019 19:29

networkn:

Reported by the Herald:

One of the investigating panelists involved in the Labour Party's botched process looking into complaints about a Labour staffer's behaviour is now the acting party president.

Really? Even if this is the process they usually follow, surely, SURELY it occurred to someone this wasn't the best idea? Even from an optics stand point?

I agree, there should be a cleanout big time

JWR

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#2316871 13-Sep-2019 04:31

tdgeek:

networkn:

Reported by the Herald:

One of the investigating panelists involved in the Labour Party's botched process looking into complaints about a Labour staffer's behaviour is now the acting party president.

Really? Even if this is the process they usually follow, surely, SURELY it occurred to someone this wasn't the best idea? Even from an optics stand point?

I agree, there should be a cleanout big time

I think you guys have lost the plot.

This shouldn't be a political issue.

There is claim of a serious crime here and most of the posts ignore that.

Investigate the original claim - not the political fallout.

GV27

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#2316876 13-Sep-2019 06:43

JWR:

I think you guys have lost the plot.

This shouldn't be a political issue.

There is claim of a serious crime here and most of the posts ignore that.

Investigate the original claim - not the political fallout.

Sorry JWR, but you now have senior politicians who appear to have made contradicting claims about what they knew and when, and on the face of it, may have mislead their our own leader, the media and therefore the public. Unfortunately, some of these people have been very vocal about sexual assault and victim's rights.

Falling back on 'investigate the crime!' is a very convenient way to put weeks or months of distance between a serious question of integrity that so far involves the PM, her staff, the Finance Minister, the Labour Party ex-President and Acting President. Sorry, but there is a substantial public interest in this.

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