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6704 posts

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  Reply # 1976658 14-Mar-2018 18:11
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freitasm: This sums up nicely https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/14-03-2018/why-the-mishandling-of-sexual-assault-complaints-is-a-political-mess-for-labour/

"Endorsement was then sought for the plan to “keep the circle small”."

 

That's the thing which in my opinion is never going to allow what else they did or didn't do to be explained away as a "mistake" or lapse of judgement.

 

It's pure political naivety to think that wouldn't be interpreted as an attempt to gag in a ham-fisted attempt at damage control - and any attempt to defend it now (ie by claiming they were thinking about the victims) is pretty well doomed to fail.

 

I wonder if retrospectively they're thinking that "going public" might have been a better idea, controlling the agenda and going very firmly with the line that the identity of the victims must be respected.  If that could have been a plan B, I can't think of a  plan C.


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  Reply # 1976695 14-Mar-2018 19:32
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What concerns me most about this whole putrid thread is the easy way that people use and throw around the word ABUSE.

 

Trust me people, most of you (I hope) have NO IDEA of what ABUSE is (regardless of age) and I really hope that you never have to experience it. And if you do, I hope that you will, like me, learn to understand the meaning of empathy rather than sit on your high horses, spouting off on social media as if you know what you are talking about. Because you don't!

 

Most of you really have no idea. I learnt the hard way at 13 years of age. 

 

It sickens me to see some in this thread, and elsewhere, compare inappropriate behavior alongside true abuse. It confirms my belief (along with others who have been in my position) that the true meaning of abuse is constantly being watered down to the most common and trendy denominator. 

 

This political correctness "point scoring", "feel good", "look at me" nonsense has to stop.

 

Stupid hormonal teenagers to one side, lets take this thread back to the real issue and stop watering down and demeaning the true meaning of abuse. Please.


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  Reply # 1976709 14-Mar-2018 19:42
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DaveB:

 

What concerns me most about this whole putrid thread is the easy way that people use and throw around the word ABUSE.

 

Trust me people, most of you (I hope) have NO IDEA of what ABUSE is (regardless of age) and I really hope that you never have to experience it. And if you do, I hope that you will, like me, learn to understand the meaning of empathy rather than sit on your high horses, spouting off on social media as if you know what you are talking about. Because you don't!

 

Most of you really have no idea. I learnt the hard way at 13 years of age. 

 

It sickens me to see some in this thread, and elsewhere, compare inappropriate behavior alongside true abuse. It confirms my belief (along with others who have been in my position) that the true meaning of abuse is constantly being watered down to the most common and trendy denominator. 

 

This political correctness "point scoring", "feel good", "look at me" nonsense has to stop.

 

Stupid hormonal teenagers to one side, lets take this thread back to the real issue and stop watering down and demeaning the true meaning of abuse. Please.

 

 

We dont need to have suffered personal sexual abuse experience to have empathy with those abused. As stated a few posts back, this post is not about that. I also dont like the way you classify teenagers as being "stupid and hormonal". You clearly dont get this thread and as to why it is under the heading "Politics"and are too emotionally charged to see things with clarity.

 

No-one here from what I have read has thrown around the word "abuse" in a demeaning way or what I have seen on the media.

 

To have this abuse in a Labour party function and for it to have happened before, and to discuss the consequences the party is taking to ensure this never happens again is the issue.

 

I am concerned by your thread.


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  Reply # 1976727 14-Mar-2018 20:21
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Daveb what is your suggested term to describe it?

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  Reply # 1976739 14-Mar-2018 20:42
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May I suggest a separate thread be started to discuss that - for those interested.

 

My intuition - and some hints given above in this thread - tells me that if this continues, a banhammer might not be far away.


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  Reply # 1976745 14-Mar-2018 20:52
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Funnily enough some friends and I discussed this earlier today. Admittedly, we are in the older age bracket and do not subscribe to the past 30 years onslaught of political correctness. We all tended to agree that this issue is one of innapropriate behaviour due to innapropriate management and supervision of youngsters with access to alcohol. Until facts prove otherwise, that is the way that I will view it.

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  Reply # 1976842 15-Mar-2018 00:01
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freitasm:

 

This sums up nicely https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/14-03-2018/why-the-mishandling-of-sexual-assault-complaints-is-a-political-mess-for-labour/ 

 



Kirton and other party officials made the call not to tell police or parents in the interests of the victims. He justified that approach by saying that was consistent with advice from specialist support agencies.

That advice was, however, received three weeks after he and other top-ranking officials – including the Party president – made no move to inform authorities or the prime minister. Endorsement was then sought for the plan to “keep the circle small”.

 

 

 

 

 

If there was ever anything that did not pass the Sniff Test, it would be this...






JWR

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  Reply # 1976853 15-Mar-2018 03:44
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Geektastic:

 

freitasm:

 

This sums up nicely https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/14-03-2018/why-the-mishandling-of-sexual-assault-complaints-is-a-political-mess-for-labour/ 

 



Kirton and other party officials made the call not to tell police or parents in the interests of the victims. He justified that approach by saying that was consistent with advice from specialist support agencies.

That advice was, however, received three weeks after he and other top-ranking officials – including the Party president – made no move to inform authorities or the prime minister. Endorsement was then sought for the plan to “keep the circle small”.

 

 

 

 

 

If there was ever anything that did not pass the Sniff Test, it would be this...

 

 

 

 

Sniff Test = relying on limited information. I would also think bias.

 

I don't know what happened in that situation and neither do you.

 

Apparently the Police are involved now.

 

Let us see what they decide.

 

Should Jacinda fire everyone concerned?

 

Jacinda has no direct control over the Labour Party. She only controls the Government.

 

I know some people will connect one with the other. But, they are wrong.

 

I personally dislike 'youth' versions of political parties (Labour or National.. etc..).

 

Wait till they are of voting age before trying manipulate them.

 

 


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  Reply # 1976912 15-Mar-2018 06:53
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JWR:

 

Sniff Test = relying on limited information. I would also think bias.

 

I don't know what happened in that situation and neither do you.

 

Apparently the Police are involved now.

 

Let us see what they decide.

 

Should Jacinda fire everyone concerned?

 

Jacinda has no direct control over the Labour Party. She only controls the Government.

 

I know some people will connect one with the other. But, they are wrong.

 

I personally dislike 'youth' versions of political parties (Labour or National.. etc..).

 

Wait till they are of voting age before trying manipulate them.

 

 

She is literally the leader of the Labour Party. 


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  Reply # 1976937 15-Mar-2018 08:50
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JWR:

 

Geektastic:

 

freitasm:

 

This sums up nicely https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/14-03-2018/why-the-mishandling-of-sexual-assault-complaints-is-a-political-mess-for-labour/ 

 



Kirton and other party officials made the call not to tell police or parents in the interests of the victims. He justified that approach by saying that was consistent with advice from specialist support agencies.

That advice was, however, received three weeks after he and other top-ranking officials – including the Party president – made no move to inform authorities or the prime minister. Endorsement was then sought for the plan to “keep the circle small”.

 

 

 

 

 

If there was ever anything that did not pass the Sniff Test, it would be this...

 

 

 

 

Sniff Test = relying on limited information. I would also think bias.

 

I don't know what happened in that situation and neither do you.

 

Apparently the Police are involved now.

 

Let us see what they decide.

 

Should Jacinda fire everyone concerned?

 

Jacinda has no direct control over the Labour Party. She only controls the Government.

 

I know some people will connect one with the other. But, they are wrong.

 

I personally dislike 'youth' versions of political parties (Labour or National.. etc..).

 

Wait till they are of voting age before trying manipulate them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

In this context, the sniff test would be what we used to apply when I worked in governments here and in the UK. Step back and imagine your actions (or the actions being considered by your Minister) as a headline. Will Joe Public say "Yes. That was well handled." or "Eh? That smells a bit off - looks very dodgy!"

 

In this case, the handling of it fails the sniff test. It demonstrates not inconsiderable political naiveté on the part of the people handling it.






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  Reply # 1976987 15-Mar-2018 10:22
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GV27:

JWR:


Sniff Test = relying on limited information. I would also think bias.


I don't know what happened in that situation and neither do you.


Apparently the Police are involved now.


Let us see what they decide.


Should Jacinda fire everyone concerned?


Jacinda has no direct control over the Labour Party. She only controls the Government.


I know some people will connect one with the other. But, they are wrong.


I personally dislike 'youth' versions of political parties (Labour or National.. etc..).


Wait till they are of voting age before trying manipulate them.



She is literally the leader of the Labour Party. 



She is leader of the labour party in government. But the labour Party as an organisation has a leadership hierarchy, with, Managers, presidents, chairmen (or chairpersons to be PC), secretaries etc... I don't know exactly, but in terms of management of the party, she is not the literal leader.

Though in the public eye she is the leader.

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  Reply # 1976994 15-Mar-2018 10:42
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rjt123:  She is leader of the labour party in government. But the labour Party as an organisation has a leadership hierarchy, with, Managers, presidents, chairmen (or chairpersons to be PC), secretaries etc... I don't know exactly, but in terms of management of the party, she is not the literal leader.

Though in the public eye she is the leader.


 

Literally. The. Leader: 

 


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  Reply # 1977004 15-Mar-2018 10:55
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The more I heard of this the worse I think JA handled it. There was an article on the Herald saying that JA should have been super angry about the way it was handled and she should really have let the public know that. In my mind she should have suspended those with direct knowledge of it.

 

No-one can blame her for her lack of knowledge and therefore inaction of it, up until it was raised and she knew about it, but I think her leadership test has been failed in this regard since. There is no downside to suspending 3-4 people pending an investigation, it's the responsible thing to do and would have shown how seriously she takes it, and would demonstrate

 

to her party that she intends to hold them as accountable. She has been very vocal when trying to hold National to account for their perceived problems in recognizing the seriousness of matters, it would have done good things for her credibility to show she isn't just talk. 

 

One wonders how the polls will react. 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1977006 15-Mar-2018 10:58
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I personally dislike 'youth' versions of political parties (Labour or National.. etc..).

 

Wait till they are of voting age before trying manipulate them.

 

 

I 100% agree with this. I've always found the idea quite... creepy? (Not necessarily in a sex related way)

 

But then I hold the view that 20 should be the voting and drinking age. 17 should be the age of consent and you should need to be 20 to enroll in the army/police/armed services. 16 should be the age you apply for a license and you shouldn't be allowed in car alone till you are 17 and have completed both a defensive driving course and a skid control course. 

 

Regardless of the law, and though my kids are young, at this stage, I expect my kids won't be in a car alone till they are 17.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1977018 15-Mar-2018 11:33
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Have you folks seen Young Nationals posts on social media? Some of the words and images are of a nature that decent people wouldn't like to see.

 

Back on topic, it seems JA forgot about the whole #metoo expressions around the media and their own words. Weak response on this so far. Not impressed.





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