Russian meddling and spies

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Reply # 1977315 15-Mar-2018 19:14

The poms know they'll get no European support to cut trade with Russia. They will freeze without Russian gas.

The Tories are compromised by the acceptance of large donations from Russian oligarchs so I cant imagine theyll actually do anything to decrease the flow of money laundered in the city.

Sending diplomats home is a symbolic gesture - where's the biffo?

DaveB

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Reply # 1977320 15-Mar-2018 19:44

elpenguino:

It has already been revealed by boris johnson they won't hit the russians where it hurts - by refusing to deal with russian money in the city.

Leaves the pomms with name calling up their sleeve though

With all the benefit fraud and cultural unrest, name calling is the only thing left. The Russian money will be left alone ....... the Pomms need it.

Fred99

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Reply # 1977321 15-Mar-2018 19:45

elpenguino: The poms know they'll get no European support to cut trade with Russia. They will freeze without Russian gas.

The Tories are compromised by the acceptance of large donations from Russian oligarchs so I cant imagine theyll actually do anything to decrease the flow of money laundered in the city.

Sending diplomats home is a symbolic gesture - where's the biffo?

Usually from Russia?

Could be a ploy to further divide Europe, split off those who'll side with the UK/US, and conquer those who'd rather have plenty of gas, to eventually bring them back under the wing of a new Soviet empire?

Yup - conspiracy theory I know, but I really don't underestimate Putin and his motives, he's incredibly clever, manipulative, psychopathic, beloved by many, devoted to Russia, and plays the long game. Once ideologically opposed to the influence of oligarchy, I don't believe even now he anything more than tolerates them as means to achieving his aims.

Geektastic

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Reply # 1978333 15-Mar-2018 21:54

elpenguino:

Geektastic:

The UN is nowt but an old wive's gossip fest - it's a complete waste of time and money.

I would not bet that the UK won't do anything. They won't do anything that they announce, possibly.

It has already been revealed by boris johnson they won't hit the russians where it hurts - by refusing to deal with russian money in the city.

Leaves the pomms with name calling up their sleeve though

There are things that get done which are not shared with the public....

elpenguino

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Reply # 1978335 15-Mar-2018 22:09

Geektastic:

elpenguino:

Geektastic:

The UN is nowt but an old wive's gossip fest - it's a complete waste of time and money.

I would not bet that the UK won't do anything. They won't do anything that they announce, possibly.

It has already been revealed by boris johnson they won't hit the russians where it hurts - by refusing to deal with russian money in the city.

Leaves the pomms with name calling up their sleeve though

There are things that get done which are not shared with the public....

Then in the eyes of the public it looks like you are doing nothing.

elpenguino

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Reply # 1978339 15-Mar-2018 22:23

Fred99:

elpenguino: The poms know they'll get no European support to cut trade with Russia. They will freeze without Russian gas.

The Tories are compromised by the acceptance of large donations from Russian oligarchs so I cant imagine theyll actually do anything to decrease the flow of money laundered in the city.

Sending diplomats home is a symbolic gesture - where's the biffo?

Usually from Russia?

Could be a ploy to further divide Europe, split off those who'll side with the UK/US, and conquer those who'd rather have plenty of gas, to eventually bring them back under the wing of a new Soviet empire?

Yup - conspiracy theory I know, but I really don't underestimate Putin and his motives, he's incredibly clever, manipulative, psychopathic, beloved by many, devoted to Russia, and plays the long game. Once ideologically opposed to the influence of oligarchy, I don't believe even now he anything more than tolerates them as means to achieving his aims.

That's not so crazy and yes the UK is currently divided and distracted by the brexit debacle so it's a good time (for him) to do this.

Putin is not encumbered with the election cycle and the need to constantly refresh his mandate. He doesn't have to worry about becoming less popular than a rival since all his rivals have a bad habit of slipping in the shower and having a nasty injury.

Accusations of Russian meddling in western affairs is hypocritical in the extreme - british meddling in russian affairs goes back to the time of the 1917 revolution(s).

Geektastic

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Reply # 1978341 15-Mar-2018 22:40

elpenguino:

Geektastic:

elpenguino:

Geektastic:

The UN is nowt but an old wive's gossip fest - it's a complete waste of time and money.

I would not bet that the UK won't do anything. They won't do anything that they announce, possibly.

It has already been revealed by boris johnson they won't hit the russians where it hurts - by refusing to deal with russian money in the city.

Leaves the pomms with name calling up their sleeve though

There are things that get done which are not shared with the public....

Then in the eyes of the public it looks like you are doing nothing.

Sure if you want to be that simplistic.

Not ALL the things that get done will be publicised - it doesn't mean they didn't happen. The public are generally not that bright - most of them will have forgotten about this and moved on to the next episode of whatever mind-rotting drivel is the current panem et circensis by the end of the month anyway and the politicians will posture about whilst the spies get on with the actual work.

elpenguino

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Reply # 1978356 15-Mar-2018 23:47

Geektastic:

elpenguino:

Geektastic:

elpenguino:

Geektastic:

The UN is nowt but an old wive's gossip fest - it's a complete waste of time and money.

I would not bet that the UK won't do anything. They won't do anything that they announce, possibly.

It has already been revealed by boris johnson they won't hit the russians where it hurts - by refusing to deal with russian money in the city.

Leaves the pomms with name calling up their sleeve though

There are things that get done which are not shared with the public....

Then in the eyes of the public it looks like you are doing nothing.

Sure if you want to be that simplistic.

Not ALL the things that get done will be publicised - it doesn't mean they didn't happen. The public are generally not that bright - most of them will have forgotten about this and moved on to the next episode of whatever mind-rotting drivel is the current panem et circensis by the end of the month anyway and the politicians will posture about whilst the spies get on with the actual work.

we all know that spies are supposed to sneak around and be invisible but public poisonings are a middle finger to all that.

everybody's watching for a response to a very unusual public case which (is so exciting i stopped watching real housewives of the wairarapa! :-)).

what was the response to the litvenyenko poisoning? In case you have forgotten, not a lot.

MikeB4

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Reply # 1978547 16-Mar-2018 11:37

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We need to offer all the dopey World Leaders free Bungy jumps . No strings attached.

Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

DaveB

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Reply # 1978551 16-Mar-2018 11:47

MikeB4:

We need to offer all the dopey World Leaders free Bungy jumps . No strings attached.

ROFL And with that very witty suggestion ..... welcome back!

MikeAqua

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Reply # 1978602 16-Mar-2018 13:00

Fred99:

I would absolutely exclude Britain.

I would tend to exclude Britain but I don't believe in absolutes. The reality is we don't know. I'm relying (like you) on judgement/assumptions, which don't support any absolute conclusion.

Mike

elpenguino

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Reply # 1978608 16-Mar-2018 13:15

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If you assume it's not russia then the act was done by someone who wanted it to look like russia.

If britain thinks it can bump off people who risked their lives to betray their home country and that this can be done without discouraging further agents to 'turn' they will be mistaken.

Another option it is a false flag operation - this is usually done to prepare the public for some kind of action against the party accused of the action. So, do you think the west will go to war with russia now?

We can speculate about russia's responsibility all we like but one thing is for sure = we know they've done it before.

The radiation from the litvenenko poisoning was found on the plane that took the suspects back to russia.

Fred99

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Reply # 1978618 16-Mar-2018 13:25

MikeAqua:

Fred99:

I would absolutely exclude Britain.

I would tend to exclude Britain but I don't believe in absolutes. The reality is we don't know. I'm relying (like you) on judgement/assumptions, which don't support any absolute conclusion.

My apology for being too definite.

Let me try that again:

Based on history, and the evidence (that a Russian "traitor" and probably also his daughter were targeted for killing using a nerve agent only known to have been synthesised in Russia), then it's so unlikely that Britain carried this out it's barely worth considering. I can't "absolutely" exclude Iceland as the culprit either.

Geektastic

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Reply # 1978639 16-Mar-2018 13:56

Fred99:

MikeAqua:

Fred99:

I would absolutely exclude Britain.

I would tend to exclude Britain but I don't believe in absolutes. The reality is we don't know. I'm relying (like you) on judgement/assumptions, which don't support any absolute conclusion.

My apology for being too definite.

Let me try that again:

Based on history, and the evidence (that a Russian "traitor" and probably also his daughter were targeted for killing using a nerve agent only known to have been synthesised in Russia), then it's so unlikely that Britain carried this out it's barely worth considering. I can't "absolutely" exclude Iceland as the culprit either.

Or New Zealand, for that matter.

Fred99

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Reply # 1979560 19-Mar-2018 09:33

In a remarkable turn of events, Putin re-elected. Thus proving that transparent, balanced domestic dialogue will overcome fake news and foreign interference in elections, to ensure that the people will reap benefits of great representative democracy.

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