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Topic # 231923 20-Mar-2018 16:37
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I'm a proponent of marijuana legalization in New Zealand.

In the short term, I want to encourage tourism, and improve our economy. Just like gambling, as more world regions embrace marijuana, tourism strictly to light-up would reduce. So the longer we wait, the less tourism dollars we capture.

In the long term, decades, I want to pay less taxes, spend less on prison, give less opportunities for criminals, give farmers a new legal and hardy crop.

But I fine a couple of arguments for its legalization disingenuous.

Most patients seem to want the psychoactive affects. I suspect if a successful medical pill was developed from marijuana, minus the THC component, there would be a lot less interest among the healthy.

You hear often "no one has ever died from marijuana." While I think it's correct that no one has ever died from an overdose, I'm not so sure that correct about lung cancer, and I almost positive plenty of died in car accidents relating to a high driver.

The last argument I find disingenuous is that hemp fibers are a great reason for legalizing marijuana. This is just b*llsh*t. There is marijuana plants available that does not have any THC. In other words, they are high-free. If there is a grand struggle to find a new natural fibre, which I find dubious, then surely the THC free species would be OK.

Again I'm actually for marijuana legalization, but strictly for economic and crime-reduction reasons.

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  Reply # 1980617 20-Mar-2018 17:37
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I simply can't see any argument for making, say, vodka legal and weed illegal.

 

 

 

People enjoy getting drunk. Other people enjoy getting stoned. Nothing wrong with either of those things provided that they do not impinge on those not doing so.

 

 

 

Yes, it has medicinal benefits. It also has pleasant other benefits. Both are fine and useful.

 

 

 

NZ can continue to stick it's head in the ground whilst legalisation continues around the world, or it can get out in front, regulate and tax supply and make plenty of additional income.






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  Reply # 1980619 20-Mar-2018 17:41
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I'm also in favour, mainly because the arguments against are even more disingenuous (gateway drug, keeps the crims on the wrong side of the law, etc.). However, I agree with your points. If those arguments are actually being made, they are stupid arguments and they are not helping the cause for a more just and sensible approach to this issue.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 




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  Reply # 1980680 20-Mar-2018 19:51
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In the US, Washington State, the home of Seattle and Microsoft, legalized marijuana.

Washington state is considered affluent, and pretty low-crime. By reputation, "stoners" are a smaller portion of the population than California. It's probably a good analogue for New Zealand.

Adjusting for population and exchange rates, NZ would have sold about NZD $1.5 billion of marijuana last year.

That's $1.5 billion dollars going untaxed, and only profiting criminals.

https://www.tre.wa.gov/portfolio-item/washington-state-marijuana-revenues-and-health/

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  Reply # 1980685 20-Mar-2018 20:04
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I want to see people in chronic pain or terminal illness be able to at least try it for benefits immediately. 




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  Reply # 1980686 20-Mar-2018 20:04
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https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/marijuana/more-washington-kids-arent-using-pot-even-though-its-legal-new-study-says/

"Washington’s pot law hasn’t meant more use by kids, new study says"

"Kids’ marijuana use in Washington state has been stable or fallen slightly since marijuana legalization was enacted, a new report says."

Andrew Selsky/The Associated Press

"Youth use of pot and cannabis-abuse treatment admissions have not increased in Washington since marijuana was legalized, according to a new analysis by the state Legislature’s think tank.

Under Initiative 502, the state’s legal-pot law, the Washington State Institute for Public Policy (WSIPP) is required to conduct periodic cost-benefit analyses of legalization on issues ranging from drugged-driving to prenatal use of marijuana."






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  Reply # 1980915 21-Mar-2018 10:40
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I'm also in support of legalisation.  (coupled with regulation)

 

Manufacture and sale of the product should have appropriate quality control, governance and supporting healthcare frameworks, much in the same way that tobacco and alcohol does.

 

Then divert all Police resources currently focused on dealing with this and re-task them to come down hard on amphetamine-related crime.

 

...I still wouldn't touch it personally, however...

 

 


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  Reply # 1980938 21-Mar-2018 11:18
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6FIEND:

 

I'm also in support of legalisation.  (coupled with regulation)

 

Manufacture and sale of the product should have appropriate quality control, governance and supporting healthcare frameworks, much in the same way that tobacco and alcohol does.

 

Then divert all Police resources currently focused on dealing with this and re-task them to come down hard on amphetamine-related crime.

 

...I still wouldn't touch it personally, however...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Which is fine. Adults should be broadly able to make choices.

 

With all these scumbags Australia is deporting to NZ at the moment, I would think we need our Police force to have maximum available resources for dealing with them, rather than wasting a single dollar on ageing hippies enjoying a bifta on the porch of an evening - something which in fact could be earning the country money and employing people!






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  Reply # 1980966 21-Mar-2018 12:29
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In my experience, alcohol is a far more damaging drug than weed can ever be. Alcohol is also a gateway drug to many things including copious amounts of stupidity that we can see over weekends that invariably spills onto the streets. I have seen many a people try weed after getting drunk but yet to see a person get stoned and then want to try out other drugs.

 

I read a few years ago that the underground market for weed in NZ is 500 million bucks. It is a no brainer for the govt. to take over the market, tax and regulate the substance. You could buy the stuff anywhere in NZ and there is no way the govt. can control it. Only helps put more people behind bars.


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  Reply # 1981087 21-Mar-2018 16:07
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mrfte:

 

...

 

I read a few years ago that the underground market for weed in NZ is 500 million bucks. It is a no brainer for the govt. to take over the market, tax and regulate the substance. You could buy the stuff anywhere in NZ and there is no way the govt. can control it. Only helps put more people behind bars.

 

 

Unfortunately, this is no longer the case- MJ is harder to come by than meth - according to quite a few recent articles.

 

It's harder to grow and distribute $10K MJ, than it is $10K meth, the latter which can be done in the boot of a car in a few days, vs months outdoors ( or indoors), and taking a fair few square meterage and tending. And easier to spot on the air with the advent of drones, etc

 

Now that MJ is more difficult to obtain, recreational MJ users are now turning to meth for their buzz.

 

The meth problem is a problem of our own collective making.

 

Unintended consequences of the The war on drugs





My thoughts are no longer my own and is probably representative of our media-controlled government


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  Reply # 1981367 22-Mar-2018 10:37
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This study looked at the toxicology of NZ drivers and motorcyclists killed in accidents https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/1556-4029.13747.

 

More killed NZ drivers and motorcyclists had drugs in their blood than alcohol - about twice as many.  More drivers had drugs and alcohol than alcohol alone.  The most frequent drug was cannabis followed by prescription drugs.

 

The study only looked at presence of substance not at actual levels of impairment or accident cause.  But the snapshot of substance use is an interesting picture.

 

 





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  Reply # 1981369 22-Mar-2018 10:40
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Yup, because NZ drivers don't get tested for dope. Just alcohol.. so drugs usually end up being a "safer" choice for those who decide to break the law anyway.

 

NZ police should do drug testing as well IMO.




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  Reply # 1981388 22-Mar-2018 11:17
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I read a few years ago that the underground market for weed in NZ is 500 million bucks.


Based on usage in legalized areas, the potential market in NZ, based on population, would probably be in the lows billions per year.

I suspect lack of supply may constrict it down to 500 million possibly now.

However if it was easily available I'd except 1 to 2 billion dollars per year.

Typically tax rates aboard are more than 30%, so easy to see this is a win-win situation

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  Reply # 1981398 22-Mar-2018 11:42
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kingdragonfly:
I suspect lack of supply may constrict it down to 500 million possibly now.

However if it was easily available I'd except 1 to 2 billion dollars per year.

Typically tax rates aboard are more than 30%, so easy to see this is a win-win situation

 

If it was legal presumably the unit value would plummet as it could be farmed openly and efficiently.  So the increased demand would have to be substantial.  But yes, tax it like alcohol.





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  Reply # 1981421 22-Mar-2018 12:05
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mrfte:

 

Yup, because NZ drivers don't get tested for dope. Just alcohol.. so drugs usually end up being a "safer" choice for those who decide to break the law anyway.

 

NZ police should do drug testing as well IMO.

 

 

 

 

I've seen reality cop shows following the Australian police - who are far less wishy washy than ours - and they most certainly do test for drugs with the same regularity that they do for alcohol.

 

 

 

Can anyone offer a single reason that is not done in NZ? The means to do it simply at the roadside certainly exist, as evidenced by Australia.








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  Reply # 1981608 22-Mar-2018 15:19
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MikeAqua: If it was legal presumably the unit value would plummet as it could be farmed openly and efficiently.  So the increased demand would have to be substantial.  But yes, tax it like alcohol.



I don't know about that. After 4 years legalized in Seattle, a half ounce, 14 grams, of store bought dope is NZD $276.

That's about 14 to 25 normal joints.

I'm guessing that $93 in taxes included.

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