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  #2034593 12-Jun-2018 20:14
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No one mentioned the crimes against humanity KJU has committed, I notice. 


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  #2034594 12-Jun-2018 20:15
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Hopeful, but sounds pretty vague to me. I guess Trump got the return of American remains from the Korean War in exchange for giving Kim credibility, status, legitimacy, honour, recognition, big boost at home and abroad. The rest is just hot air. Kim did pretty well from this bargain.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


 
 
 
 


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  #2034601 12-Jun-2018 20:26
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Trump invited Kim Jong Un to have a look inside the 'Beast' limo. So in some way at least it looks as if Trump is making a real effort to do the business.

 

When a POTUS goes on a visit to another country they take up to three of the beast limos depending on the risk assessment. Maybe Trump could gift one of the limos to Kim as a goodwill gesture - stranger things have happened! I dare say the Chinese cargo B747 would have the room and capacity to ship it back to North Korea along with Kim's Merc.


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  #2034606 12-Jun-2018 20:34
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The Doofus is rambling incoherently all over the place during the Q&A. 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


gzt

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gzt

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  #2034621 12-Jun-2018 20:55
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tdgeek:

As far as a short summit meeting, it was successful. It has ended with an agreement to commit to denuclearisation in return for security guarantees. Nice and vague.


In Pompeo's words before the meeting - "unique security guarantees".

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  #2034645 12-Jun-2018 21:25
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gzt:
tdgeek:

 

As far as a short summit meeting, it was successful. It has ended with an agreement to commit to denuclearisation in return for security guarantees. Nice and vague.

 


In Pompeo's words before the meeting - "unique security guarantees".

 

Ah unique. Happy now :-)


 
 
 
 


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  #2034649 12-Jun-2018 21:27
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Just a reminder of a rather less "aspirational" denuclearization treaty that has already been signed:

 

 

Desiring to eliminate the danger of nuclear war through denuclearization of the Korean peninsula ...

 

     

  1. The South and the North shall not test, manufacture, produce, receive, possess, store, deploy or use nuclear weapons.
  2. The South and the North shall use nuclear energy solely for peaceful purposes.
  3. The South and the North shall not possess nuclear reprocessing and uranium enrichment facilities.
  4. The South and the North, in order to verify the denuclearization of the Korean peninsula, shall conduct inspection of the objects selected by the other side and agreed upon between the two sides, in accordance with procedures and methods to be determined by the South-North Joint Nuclear Control Commission.
  5. The South and the North, in order to implement this joint declaration, shall establish and operate a South-North joint Nuclear Control Commission within one (1) month of the effectuation of this joint declaration.
  6. This Joint Declaration shall enter into force as of the day the two sides exchange appropriate instruments following the completion of their respective procedures for bringing it into effect.

 

Signed on January 20, ****

 

 

**** = 1992

 

What happened? 

 

 


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  #2034651 12-Jun-2018 21:30
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Listening to Trump's thoughts is like listening to a bullet ricochet around a room. Normally I can't stand to listen to him but I made myself listen to the entire press conference. It gave me a headache. 

 

Christiane Amanpour just said he was incoherent. That is being charitable. He did accomplish one thing, though: Apparently he agreed to stop the military exercises with South Korea that Kim doesn't like. He forgot to ask for anything in exchange.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #2034653 12-Jun-2018 21:32
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Rikkitic:

 

Hopeful, but sounds pretty vague to me. I guess Trump got the return of American remains from the Korean War in exchange for giving Kim credibility, status, legitimacy, honour, recognition, big boost at home and abroad. The rest is just hot air. Kim did pretty well from this bargain.

 

 

 

 

Its actually a lot more. In the Q+A he expanded on denuking, so that will be full and verified. That was only termed reaffirming. Sanctions are untouched until denuking is far enough to be terminal, he suggested 20% dismantlement. So, if they denuke and US drops sanctions, thats a win. NK gets his place as a recognised leader, well that only cost a few flags and photos for 5 hours. he gets "unique" security guarantees. And he will get aid from Japan, SK and China, US will not pay aid.

 

Off course it depends if KJU complies. If he does, he wins.

 

 

 

 


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  #2034654 12-Jun-2018 21:34
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Fred99:

 

Just a reminder of a rather less "aspirational" denuclearization treaty that has already been signed:

 

 

Desiring to eliminate the danger of nuclear war through denuclearization of the Korean peninsula ...

 

     

  1. The South and the North shall not test, manufacture, produce, receive, possess, store, deploy or use nuclear weapons.
  2. The South and the North shall use nuclear energy solely for peaceful purposes.
  3. The South and the North shall not possess nuclear reprocessing and uranium enrichment facilities.
  4. The South and the North, in order to verify the denuclearization of the Korean peninsula, shall conduct inspection of the objects selected by the other side and agreed upon between the two sides, in accordance with procedures and methods to be determined by the South-North Joint Nuclear Control Commission.
  5. The South and the North, in order to implement this joint declaration, shall establish and operate a South-North joint Nuclear Control Commission within one (1) month of the effectuation of this joint declaration.
  6. This Joint Declaration shall enter into force as of the day the two sides exchange appropriate instruments following the completion of their respective procedures for bringing it into effect.

 

Signed on January 20, ****

 

 

**** = 1992

 

What happened? 

 

 

 

 

Needed to finish the nuclear deterrent, which is the reason why todays meeting took pace. Now they trade that in. Im still surprised its CVID


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  #2034658 12-Jun-2018 21:39
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Rikkitic:

 

Listening to Trump's thoughts is like listening to a bullet ricochet around a room. Normally I can't stand to listen to him but I made myself listen to the entire press conference. It gave me a headache. 

 

Christiane Amanpour just said he was incoherent. That is being charitable. He did accomplish one thing, though: Apparently he agreed to stop the military exercises with South Korea that Kim doesn't like. He forgot to ask for anything in exchange.

 

 

 

 

I don't recall that.

 

Some of these issues were added later, such as the missile engine test site removal. 

 

I thought the Q+A was fun. Drifted off tangent so often. "That is a deficit of trade, commonly known as a trade deficit" Complimenting himself, etc. Very funny.

 

What I got out of this was that there was in fact a lot of background setup on this.

 

So he said that he will stop the war games, and went on and on that they cost so much money. Then some commentator said that was a huge concession. Stupid.


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  #2034659 12-Jun-2018 21:42
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Will NK comply? Im bullish on that. Not because of Trump, because of KJU. He clearly feels he can get aid, stop sanctions, and be safe. Safe from US (not 100% sure) but has China there anyway, so already safe by default.


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  #2034667 12-Jun-2018 22:00
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tdgeek:

 

Fred99:

 

Just a reminder of a rather less "aspirational" denuclearization treaty that has already been signed:

 

 

Desiring to eliminate the danger of nuclear war through denuclearization of the Korean peninsula ...

 

     

  1. The South and the North shall not test, manufacture, produce, receive, possess, store, deploy or use nuclear weapons.
  2. The South and the North shall use nuclear energy solely for peaceful purposes.
  3. The South and the North shall not possess nuclear reprocessing and uranium enrichment facilities.
  4. The South and the North, in order to verify the denuclearization of the Korean peninsula, shall conduct inspection of the objects selected by the other side and agreed upon between the two sides, in accordance with procedures and methods to be determined by the South-North Joint Nuclear Control Commission.
  5. The South and the North, in order to implement this joint declaration, shall establish and operate a South-North joint Nuclear Control Commission within one (1) month of the effectuation of this joint declaration.
  6. This Joint Declaration shall enter into force as of the day the two sides exchange appropriate instruments following the completion of their respective procedures for bringing it into effect.

 

Signed on January 20, ****

 

 

**** = 1992

 

What happened? 

 

 

 

 

Needed to finish the nuclear deterrent, which is the reason why todays meeting took pace. Now they trade that in. Im still surprised its CVID

 

 

There's another version of that - GWB happened, pulled a Trump/Iran stunt in 2003.  That was possibly based on the same kind of CIA "intelligence" that said Iraq had WMD.

 

Talking of WMD, why the fuss about NK's nuclear programme - but no mention of their other assumed WMD programmes?

 

They do have VX. they're assumed to have weaponised anthrax, smallpox etc. 

 

 


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  #2034673 12-Jun-2018 22:13
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change

 

It takes quite a while just to scroll through the links on that page. To read all the articles would probably take hours. There are fifty links to overt actions and another whole section on the covert. So why would any leader trust the USA not to interfere?

 

That said what Trump and Kim Jong Un have done at the summit is encouraging.

 

 

 

 


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