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#2257541 13-Jun-2019 17:34

GV27:

Their first term was from 2008 to 2011; during which there were two stonkingly massive earthquakes.

Only one stonkingly massive one. In terms of damage (rather than "magnitude") the other (first one) was what NZ should expect as likely to happen every few years. That's what insurance and EQC is for.

And as for that big one, despite the government having to top up a few billion dollars (EQC reserves and reinsurance payouts were not "government money"), the >$30 billion of so that was paid out by insurers (and to them by reinsurers), when used in the rebuild was a significant boost to the economy, and the government coffers benefited from both the GST on the rebuild expenditure, and the increased PAYE and business tax due to the significant boost in local economic activity. They clawed back.

How the government and EQ minister handled that is another matter, but using the Chch quake as an excuse for anything to do with National's general performance isn't new. The MP for Ilam spent years bleating about how much "the government" was spending, when the vast majority of what was being spent wasn't theirs. Of what they did spend though, a hell of lot was wasted (by EQC/EQR) many people were telling them this at the time - and it's turned out they were correct. It was a shambles.

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GV27

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#2258034 14-Jun-2019 10:47

Fred99:

How the government and EQ minister handled that is another matter, but using the Chch quake as an excuse for anything to do with National's general performance isn't new. The MP for Ilam spent years bleating about how much "the government" was spending, when the vast majority of what was being spent wasn't theirs. Of what they did spend though, a hell of lot was wasted (by EQC/EQR) many people were telling them this at the time - and it's turned out they were correct. It was a shambles.

If I were a Christchurchian I'd be really pissed off about the rebuild as well. There was a lot of money spent and they've ended up with literally the worst possible outcome: none of the charm of the old city but with none of the utility of a well-planned redeveloped region with barely adequate housing to boot.

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#2258243 14-Jun-2019 15:10

Welcome to Auckland!

tdgeek

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#2258254 14-Jun-2019 15:25

GV27:

Fred99:

How the government and EQ minister handled that is another matter, but using the Chch quake as an excuse for anything to do with National's general performance isn't new. The MP for Ilam spent years bleating about how much "the government" was spending, when the vast majority of what was being spent wasn't theirs. Of what they did spend though, a hell of lot was wasted (by EQC/EQR) many people were telling them this at the time - and it's turned out they were correct. It was a shambles.

If I were a Christchurchian I'd be really pissed off about the rebuild as well. There was a lot of money spent and they've ended up with literally the worst possible outcome: none of the charm of the old city but with none of the utility of a well-planned redeveloped region with barely adequate housing to boot.

Rebuild wise, as in building wise, its ok. CBD is getting quite smart, quite hip in places. Busy now too

GV27

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#2258322 14-Jun-2019 16:24

tdgeek:

Rebuild wise, as in building wise, its ok. CBD is getting quite smart, quite hip in places. Busy now too

Seemed like a bit of a missed opportunity - some of the earlier renders with proper rapid transit networks would have been a good place to aim. How often do you rebuild a city?

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#2258335 14-Jun-2019 16:46

GV27:

tdgeek:

Rebuild wise, as in building wise, its ok. CBD is getting quite smart, quite hip in places. Busy now too

Seemed like a bit of a missed opportunity - some of the earlier renders with proper rapid transit networks would have been a good place to aim. How often do you rebuild a city?

Very true. Now, the place here wasn't levelled! :-) Which would make it worthwhile to add light rail etc. Houses got fixed so thats no change. They removed around 1000 or 1600 buildings in the CBD, and thats been done ok. When I go there I dunno where I am. The rest of the place hasn't been re done, so probably not much room for re design, so I assume a bit of over exuberance there. There is a stadium somewhere, nothing yet. Cathedral, dont ask!

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#2258731 15-Jun-2019 13:36

Washington Post perspective on our Wellbeing Budget. People are noticing.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#2258749 15-Jun-2019 14:33

Rikkitic:

Washington Post perspective on our Wellbeing Budget. People are noticing.

As this op-ed is behind a paywall, here is the full text:

The Washington Post - What nation isn’t obsessed with ensuring economic growth? New Zealand, apparently.

June 14 at 7:14 PM

Writing in 1930, John Maynard Keynes predicted that by 2030 we would work only 15 hours a week. Economic growth would lift our standard of living four- to eightfold, and the everyday citizen could finally stop plugging away.

As I’m sure we all realize, Keynes’ leisure-time predictions have not yet come to pass. Not because our standard of living hasn’t risen as a result of economic growth (in fact, his estimate was right on the mark), but because, even after life-changingly rapid advances over almost a century, we’ve just ... carried on working. The United States is obsessed with ensuring continued economic growth. What modern nation isn’t?

New Zealand, as it turns out.

Last month, the island nation released its first “Wellbeing Budget.” Contra most national spending plans, the goal of the coming year’s appropriations is not to boost gross domestic product but to increase the happiness of the country’s citizens. In the next fiscal year, all of New Zealand’s noncore spending must be oriented toward five well-being goals: improving mental health, reducing child poverty, supporting indigenous people, transitioning to a low-emissions economy and thriving in a digital age. And to measure success, the government will track nontraditional indicators such as perceived environmental quality and sense of belonging.

It remains to be seen how effective this new budget will be at addressing the issues it calls out, or whether the initiative will outlast the tenure of progressive Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern. But as a statement of values and a signpost for other modern governments, it’s a major step.

Gross domestic product, as a measure of a nation’s overall economic output, was introduced to Congress in 1937 during the Great Depression. It was meant to be a measure of production, not some absolute measure of national success - “The welfare of a nation can scarcely be inferred from a measurement of national income,” its inventor, Nobel Prize-winning economist Simon Kuznets, wrote in 1934. Still, following the formation of international financial institutions after World War II, GDP became the standard tool for evaluating a nation’s economy.

Today, growth is seen as a shorthand for progress. But while the U.S. economy may be strong, more money doesn’t necessarily mean more happiness - at least, after a certain point. The economy has been on a hot streak for years, but that hasn’t neutralized deaths of despair, homelessness, or a creeping sense of anomie. New Zealand’s economy is healthy enough, but the country is still experiencing a suicide crisis.

Of course, growth is an aggregate measure - some parts of the economy rise while others stagnate or even fall. There are nuances to GDP as a measure that are frequently overlooked. One theory for why our happiness hasn’t increased in tandem with our economy is that the benefits of all the growth we’ve achieved aren’t going to those who need it - widening inequality is eating it up. Still, our economic models are built on expectations of continued expansion.

GDP numbers can drive inflation, interest rates and debt. It would be difficult to untwine the system by which we measured much of the past 80 years - but that isn’t really New Zealand’s goal. Its new budget is a statement of priorities more than anything. What matters most to them? What should matter to us?

New Zealanders are defining their well-being around mental health and support for families and indigenous communities. One of the most talked about investments is $200 million dedicated to survivors of domestic and sexual violence - the largest of its kind, and an enormous amount for a country whose population is about the same as Alabama’s.

We could do something similar if we wanted to. Years of growth mean that the United States is not actually short on funds - the question is simply where they go. Focusing on well-being here might mean cutting back on less socially contributive programs (how many malfunctioning F-35s does our military need, after all?) and reorienting our spending toward projects that increase social stability, whether through family supports, racial reconciliation or environmental conservation. We could agree that goosing innovation, while generally a positive goal, is not the only thing that matters - and spend accordingly.

It’s a question of values, though, and ours are currently skewed in the opposite direction. But even in the Nordic countries, which are consistently ranked among the world’s happiest, some complain that the lack of economic intensity keeps Finland and the rest from producing the world’s Facebooks and Amazons. Still, I personally would sacrifice the invention of Facebook for any manner of advances in well-being - from a reliable national health-care system to free lunches for kids at public playgrounds. (It’s customary in Helsinki.)

“Growth alone does not lead to a great country,” Ardern wrote in her introduction to the 2019 budget. “So it’s time to focus on those things that do.” What could we change if we did the same?

Sideface

wsnz

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#2258839 15-Jun-2019 18:24

A "Welling Budget" provides a lovely politically expedient soundbite, but what does it actually achieve? Were preceding budgets not produced with the wellbeing of the country in mind? Funding for additional mental health services could easily be added to the budget without a change to it's title.

The big issue is how do we accurately and objectively measure happiness? Something that is controlled by so many different variables, and is changeable hour to hour. Assigning an arbitrary monetary value of $592 on gaining a friend, or $4.7m on the value of life, is fraught with inaccuracy and subjectivity.

I cannot see a "welling budget" being continued by any subsequent government, either of the left or right, but I look forward to the monthly updates on the increased valuations of people’s lives as they become more happy. Perhaps life will be worth $5.0m by years end due to inflation alone?

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#2258850 15-Jun-2019 19:07

wsnz:

A "Welling Budget" provides a lovely politically expedient soundbite, but what does it actually achieve? Were preceding budgets not produced with the wellbeing of the country in mind? Funding for additional mental health services could easily be added to the budget without a change to it's title.

The big issue is how do we accurately and objectively measure happiness? Something that is controlled by so many different variables, and is changeable hour to hour. Assigning an arbitrary monetary value of $592 on gaining a friend, or $4.7m on the value of life, is fraught with inaccuracy and subjectivity.

I cannot see a "welling budget" being continued by any subsequent government, either of the left or right, but I look forward to the monthly updates on the increased valuations of people’s lives as they become more happy. Perhaps life will be worth $5.0m by years end due to inflation alone?

What its a "Welling Budget" ?

What does it achieve? Most people are aware that NZ has a poor record with mental health, suicide, etc. And other sectors particularly our indigenous people. If a budget seeks to address and improve this, I have no issue. Its needed in our society, that's very clear.

As to the title, its a wake up call, not line 20 on page 4 of a Government document. Mental health service parent the only needy demographic, there are others, so this budget, while there was much other non social discretionary spending, its good to have a theme, to show us all that its a big deal. Well it is to me.

Happiness? Im not affected by wellbeing measures, so my happiness metric doesn't change. Although as I have a family member who will benefit, along with MANY others in NZ, I guess my happiness metric increases.

There isn't a need to continue it, its a boost. Hence it was named.

If you need updates you can use GDP. Thats tells us the economy of our country. But it doesnt. Its a poor measure. So, no real need for an update, if we watch the news we will, over time, be aware of updates in the "well-being"sectors

Still unsure the reason for your post

Bluntz

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#2258917 15-Jun-2019 21:55

tdgeek:

wsnz:

A "Welling Budget" provides a lovely politically expedient soundbite, but what does it actually achieve? Were preceding budgets not produced with the wellbeing of the country in mind? Funding for additional mental health services could easily be added to the budget without a change to it's title.

The big issue is how do we accurately and objectively measure happiness? Something that is controlled by so many different variables, and is changeable hour to hour. Assigning an arbitrary monetary value of $592 on gaining a friend, or $4.7m on the value of life, is fraught with inaccuracy and subjectivity.

I cannot see a "welling budget" being continued by any subsequent government, either of the left or right, but I look forward to the monthly updates on the increased valuations of people’s lives as they become more happy. Perhaps life will be worth $5.0m by years end due to inflation alone?

What its a "Welling Budget" ?

What does it achieve? Most people are aware that NZ has a poor record with mental health, suicide, etc. And other sectors particularly our indigenous people. If a budget seeks to address and improve this, I have no issue. Its needed in our society, that's very clear.

As to the title, its a wake up call, not line 20 on page 4 of a Government document. Mental health service parent the only needy demographic, there are others, so this budget, while there was much other non social discretionary spending, its good to have a theme, to show us all that its a big deal. Well it is to me.

Happiness? Im not affected by wellbeing measures, so my happiness metric doesn't change. Although as I have a family member who will benefit, along with MANY others in NZ, I guess my happiness metric increases.

There isn't a need to continue it, its a boost. Hence it was named.

If you need updates you can use GDP. Thats tells us the economy of our country. But it doesnt. Its a poor measure. So, no real need for an update, if we watch the news we will, over time, be aware of updates in the "well-being"sectors

Still unsure the reason for your post

Like many people this so called budget does little for the well being of many. Hospitals and Pharmac have suffered as have the well being of the worse off..the beneficiaries, who by the Governments own review are now 42% worse off than 10 years ago. I guess the teachers are now better off, and some money has gone to mental health....but not a lot else. Its all been spun up by the spin doctors who are not a part of our decaying general health system( Labours own words spoken many times over the last 2 years.).

Aredwood

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#2258998 16-Jun-2019 03:10

tdgeek:
GV27:

tdgeek:

He has also admitted that National should have done more to pass RMA legislation in its first term in Government between 2008 and 2011.

https://www.interest.co.nz/news/95366/opposition-leader-simon-bridges-says-national-will-have-%E2%80%98significant%E2%80%99-rma-bill-ready-some

Not the article I had read with more detail, but. Opportunity lost and all that

You were just arguing we can't judge the current govt after nine years of National. Which is it?

?

I said they spent 9 years for zero result on RMA. Someone said they could not have changed RMA as they were a minoroty Govt, Ive just shown they could have, but they didnt. And their partners who get blamed wanted more but National wanted the watered down version.

That “someone” was me.

That above article doesn't say what SB thinks National should have done at the time to pass RMA changes. And it still doesn't refute my original point. Which is that National needed another party (or parties) to help them pass any changes.

I don't agree that National should have agreed to any and all demands made by minor parties. Going by the same logic - Labour should have told NZF that they will do anything in exchange for getting their CGT law changes passed.

Remember also that in 2008, the economy had just entered a recession. People were predicting approx 30% decline in house prices (apartments were definitely dropping in value). The GFC was happening, causing lots of overseas bank failures. The finance companies were failing. And there were fears that there might be a bank failure or a bank run in NZ. And most NZ bank lending is secured on houses and farms, using money that was borrowed on short term loans from overseas. And NZ had its credit rating downgraded by 1 of the 3 main rating agencies.

It sounds good with the benefit of hindsight, that National should have supported a law change back then (that UF wanted) requiring housing affordability. But the risks at the time of major falls in house prices, in an already stressed economy. And the political risk of doing so. As it has often been said that homeowners hold the political power in NZ, and that they will immediately vote out anyone who wants house prices to drop. More recently, even Andrew Little said that he didn't want house prices to drop. (said back when he was still the Labour party leader).

Back to the current political situation. Lots more Millennials now have voting rights. And although it had previously been noted that Millennials are now the biggest population group. There was still speculation as to when they will start to exercise their newly acquired voting rights. And in turn, politicians will start to propose and pass laws that favor them, instead of favoring the baby boomers and retirees.

Labour with JA getting elected might have been the signal. That Millennials now hold the political power in NZ. If this is true, then there will be more big political changes in the next few elections.

If so, Then it should not be surprising that National under SB, is distancing themselves from National under John Key. As immigration and planning reform are 2 big differences between the current JA Labour government, and the Helen Clark Labour government.

The MMP landscape has also killed off the Alliance, Maori Party, United Future. While the Act Party is on borrowed time. If National state that they will refuse to work with NZF, then NZF will also be gone at the next election. As no advantage voting for NZF compared to voting Labour.

The next election will (for all intents and purposes) actually be a FPP election.

Yet there is still that old saying “Its the Economy, Stupid”. In that if the economy crashes, whichever government is in power at the time, gets voted out.

It doesn't matter what Labour put in the Wellbeing Budget. If you have lost your job. Then any claims of improved Wellbeing will sound completely untrue to you.

tdgeek

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#2259042 16-Jun-2019 10:19

Bluntz:

tdgeek:

wsnz:

A "Welling Budget" provides a lovely politically expedient soundbite, but what does it actually achieve? Were preceding budgets not produced with the wellbeing of the country in mind? Funding for additional mental health services could easily be added to the budget without a change to it's title.

The big issue is how do we accurately and objectively measure happiness? Something that is controlled by so many different variables, and is changeable hour to hour. Assigning an arbitrary monetary value of $592 on gaining a friend, or $4.7m on the value of life, is fraught with inaccuracy and subjectivity.

I cannot see a "welling budget" being continued by any subsequent government, either of the left or right, but I look forward to the monthly updates on the increased valuations of people’s lives as they become more happy. Perhaps life will be worth $5.0m by years end due to inflation alone?

What its a "Welling Budget" ?

What does it achieve? Most people are aware that NZ has a poor record with mental health, suicide, etc. And other sectors particularly our indigenous people. If a budget seeks to address and improve this, I have no issue. Its needed in our society, that's very clear.

As to the title, its a wake up call, not line 20 on page 4 of a Government document. Mental health service parent the only needy demographic, there are others, so this budget, while there was much other non social discretionary spending, its good to have a theme, to show us all that its a big deal. Well it is to me.

Happiness? Im not affected by wellbeing measures, so my happiness metric doesn't change. Although as I have a family member who will benefit, along with MANY others in NZ, I guess my happiness metric increases.

There isn't a need to continue it, its a boost. Hence it was named.

If you need updates you can use GDP. Thats tells us the economy of our country. But it doesnt. Its a poor measure. So, no real need for an update, if we watch the news we will, over time, be aware of updates in the "well-being"sectors

Still unsure the reason for your post

Like many people this so called budget does little for the well being of many. Hospitals and Pharmac have suffered as have the well being of the worse off..the beneficiaries, who by the Governments own review are now 42% worse off than 10 years ago. I guess the teachers are now better off, and some money has gone to mental health....but not a lot else. Its all been spun up by the spin doctors who are not a part of our decaying general health system( Labours own words spoken many times over the last 2 years.).

We don't have bottomless pit of money. No matter who is in power, or what they budget for, not everything can be bright up to date. Health has been underfunded. They, like teachers have had some help.

Probably better to suggest we should borrow in order to resolve these issues, rather than while about a budget that has offered help to vulnerable people, and while education had had a boost, and sine health has had a boost

tdgeek

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#2259043 16-Jun-2019 10:26

Aredwood:

That above article doesn't say what SB thinks National should have done at the time to pass RMA changes. And it still doesn't refute my original point. Which is that National needed another party (or parties) to help them pass any changes.

It doesn't matter what Labour put in the Wellbeing Budget. If you have lost your job. Then any claims of improved Wellbeing will sound completely untrue to you.

It says they had an opportunity in the first term, but National wanted the watered down version. Im not sure what the watered down version as, but so many everywhere say we need to reform RMA, so a water down version was probably never going to solve much anyway.

I don't work in the health sector or the education sector or have mental health afflictions. That doesnt mean that a budget based on wellbeing for our vulnerable has no value. Its a sad time if that's what it comes down to.

Fred99

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#2259066 16-Jun-2019 12:39

GV27:

tdgeek:

Rebuild wise, as in building wise, its ok. CBD is getting quite smart, quite hip in places. Busy now too

Seemed like a bit of a missed opportunity - some of the earlier renders with proper rapid transit networks would have been a good place to aim. How often do you rebuild a city?

The skeptic in me would say that preserving the capital/wealth of a small number of extremely wealthy property owners in the CBD took precedence over the utopian idealist vision to carry out the rebuild to create a modern city. They were the ones with the cash that grand plans needed to attract. Same old same old.

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