Our new coalition government.

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#2341750 22-Oct-2019 13:00

tdgeek:

I think it was to begin building Light Rail for AKL in 2020. Maybe 2019, unsure

CBD to Mt Roskill by 2020/2021 - "four years" was the stated construction time frame. That quickly became "We can't start before then due to CHOGM" or some other rubbish.

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GV27

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#2341752 22-Oct-2019 13:20

Look have a read of this, this should articulate why it's so endlessly frustrating for me. It's a bloody good piece. We're making all the same mistakes Auckland has made with critical infrastructure (e.g. Robbie's rail) all over again and we've learned nothing.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/116766380/is-aucklands-light-rail-the-governments-biggest-bungle

MikeB4

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#2341860 22-Oct-2019 14:35

This has a date line of August 2017. Labour promise was light rail from Auckland CBD to the airport with a decade. They will not meet the 4 years to Mt Roskill time frame. I prefer thorough planning and consultation on these project as opposed to recklessly trying to meet a political statement.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/08/labour-promises-light-rail-to-auckland-airport-within-a-decade.html

"The Labour Party has promised to build light rail from Auckland's CBD to the airport within a decade - three times quicker than National.

It's Jacinda Ardern's first major policy announcement as Leader of the Opposition.

Work on the project would begin with light rail to Mt Roskill, to be completed within four years. That would be expanded south to the airport and to west Auckland within a decade, followed with a line from the North Shore to the CBD.

The plan has backing from Labour's prefered support partner, the Greens, who want rail to the airport by 2021 and to the North Shore by 2030."

networkn

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#2341861 22-Oct-2019 14:38

Labour have said they will not meet the 2020 Mt Roskill Deadline.

If they don't meet that, there is no chance whatsoever they will meet the airport deadline either.

sir1963

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#2341863 22-Oct-2019 14:41

networkn:

Labour have said they will not meet the 2020 Mt Roskill Deadline.

If they don't meet that, there is no chance whatsoever they will meet the airport deadline either.

Find me any large project that is on time on cost, political affiliation does not seem to change that neither does public/private .

tdgeek

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#2341864 22-Oct-2019 14:46

Mt Roskill is due 2021 not 2020, but I'd not expect it to be by then either as there have been planning delays. As per what Mike has stated, do we want it done now or done right?

If we stuck to the 30 years that's bound to be a policy achieved on time...

Transport Minister Simon Bridges gave light rail to the airport the green light in March, but said it could take 30 years to complete, depending on funding and demand. The Government is planning on meeting demand using buses in the meantime.

GV27

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#2341896 22-Oct-2019 15:41

tdgeek:

Mt Roskill is due 2021 not 2020, but I'd not expect it to be by then either as there have been planning delays. As per what Mike has stated, do we want it done now or done right?

If you have a read through the article that I posted, it's clear we're not getting either one of those things. That kind of approach also means no one questions whether that's a trade off that actually needs to be made. Given AT had already done a bunch of work on this, it seems like the question should be "What have we missed out on by not jut letting AT get on with it, or even letting NZTA press on with their own proposal, to facilitate this crappy and unspecced, unsolicited third-party bid?"

sir1963

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#2341899 22-Oct-2019 15:51

GV27:

tdgeek:

Mt Roskill is due 2021 not 2020, but I'd not expect it to be by then either as there have been planning delays. As per what Mike has stated, do we want it done now or done right?

If you have a read through the article that I posted, it's clear we're not getting either one of those things. That kind of approach also means no one questions whether that's a trade off that actually needs to be made. Given AT had already done a bunch of work on this, it seems like the question should be "What have we missed out on by not jut letting AT get on with it, or even letting NZTA press on with their own proposal, to facilitate this crappy and unspecced, unsolicited third-party bid?"

I would prefer delays than rushing ahead with a bad decision. The howls of protest over a bad decision would be deafening.

The problem with the private bid is if they do not make enough money from it they will simply run it into the ground and then demand a huge government bail out. AKA NZ Rail.

networkn

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#2341900 22-Oct-2019 15:59

sir1963:

networkn:

Labour have said they will not meet the 2020 Mt Roskill Deadline.

If they don't meet that, there is no chance whatsoever they will meet the airport deadline either.

Find me any large project that is on time on cost, political affiliation does not seem to change that neither does public/private .

Which is why you don't make up fairy tales to win elections.

floydbloke

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#2341902 22-Oct-2019 16:01

sir1963:

....

Find me any large project that is on time on cost, political affiliation does not seem to change that neither does public/private .

Waterview tunnel. Less than 5% late and within budget. Not bad for a $1.4B gig.

Roses are red, that much is true, but violets are purple, not ****ing blue!

sir1963

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#2341905 22-Oct-2019 16:11

floydbloke:

sir1963:

....

Find me any large project that is on time on cost, political affiliation does not seem to change that neither does public/private .

Waterview tunnel. Less than 5% late and within budget. Not bad for a $1.4B gig.

So...late then 😬

Planning was started over a decade before construction started.

I understand the Hoover dam was built ahead of schedule and below cost.

networkn

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#2341906 22-Oct-2019 16:12

sir1963:

I understand the Hoover dam was built ahead of schedule and below cost.

As are almost all government projects in Singapore. The problem is too many people are allowed an objection on all manner of grounds.

sir1963

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#2341909 22-Oct-2019 16:18

networkn:

sir1963:

I understand the Hoover dam was built ahead of schedule and below cost.

As are almost all government projects in Singapore. The problem is too many people are allowed an objection on all manner of grounds.

Yeah, its not like the peoples who's live are impacted should be ungrateful or anything, as for the environment, it will all be done outside of the environment... right (calling on the ghost of John Clarke)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM

The joys of living in a democracy is that people ARE allowed to have their say, who would have thought....

Dingbatt

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#2341937 22-Oct-2019 17:52

sir1963:

I understand the Hoover dam was built ahead of schedule and below cost.

Im sure if the Waterview Tunnel had been built under similar circumstances to the Hoover Dam, ie no consenting process and no objections under the public works framework, almost zero health and safety measures, and virtual slave labour conditions due to the Great Depression, it probably would have been early and on budget as well.

I don’t think calls for Ardern to resign are appropriate. In fact it brings to mind the saying “It’s hard to soar like an eagle when you are surrounded by turkeys.” Not that it is really his fault, but the stink of failure seems to be following Twyford around. If doomsayers are to be believed, there will be no point in a railway to the airport because no one will be flying by the time it’s finished (or the airport will be under water).

Disruptive transport technologies will render trains on fixed tracks obsolete. I still believe that light rail is using yesterday’s solution, to solve today’s problem, tomorrow.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

GV27

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#2341991 22-Oct-2019 18:37

Dingbatt:

Disruptive transport technologies will render trains on fixed tracks obsolete. I still believe that light rail is using yesterday’s solution, to solve today’s problem, tomorrow.

The congestion is there today.

"Wait for AI/Wait for trackless trams/Wait for self-driving cars" is techbro speak for "I don't want to have to pay taxes to fund something because talking about is cheaper and it doesn't affect me personally".

It's funny how solving the problem involves doing nothing to improve the lives of those living in the poorest, most rapidly-intensifying areas who don't happen to have the sort of white-collar jobs that can be done with telecommuting.

It's really their fault for being poor.

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