Our new coalition government.

To post in this sub-forum you must have made 100 posts or have Trust status or have completed our ID Verification

Forums › Politics › Our new coalition government.

1 | ... | 155 | 156 | 157 | 158 | 159 | 160 | 161 | 162 | 163 | 164 | 165 | ... | 182

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#2431967 3-Mar-2020 16:08

networkn:

She was busy flogging a dead horse in Australia instead of giving her full attention where it is needed, which is the response to the CoronaVirus. We have SERIOUS SERIOUS problems preparing for this in NZ (I have some inside knowledge of this). The Australia thing could have waited, Coronavirus absolutely cannot. We also have a serious problem heading into Flu season where we are *massively* short of even a conservative projected number of flu shots.

It's, in my opinion, the hallmark of a lack of her leadership, that she almost always seems to be focused on the wrong things and lacks the spine to hold people under her accountable.

The next couple of months will be her defining period, I don't believe it is going to be good for her.

tdgeek

29659 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2431973 3-Mar-2020 16:16

19 Sept is the day. Just six short months. And let us know that NZF is a no go

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#2431981 3-Mar-2020 16:44

And now Jones is thumbing his nose or raising his middle finger to the PM and NZ. Surely he must go.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/410815/new-zealand-first-mp-shane-jones-stands-by-indian-students-remark

OldGeek

882 posts

Ultimate Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#2432053 3-Mar-2020 20:04

There should be a storm brewing:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12310273

Note that the writer of this article self-idendifies as a Labour voter in 2017.

--

OldGeek.

Voyager referral code: https://refer.voyager.nz/6XQR2QG9Q

gulfa

321 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#2432468 4-Mar-2020 14:01

I see our keyboard warriors are at it again

networkn

Networkn
32254 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2432472 4-Mar-2020 14:07

gulfa:

I see our keyboard warriors are at it again

You might want to considering googling Irony :)

When was the last time you actively discussed policy in this or any other political thread again!?

gulfa

321 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#2432492 4-Mar-2020 14:22

Anyone with a brain would realize that all politicians take advice from their advisers trying to blame the Pm for this is really immature But of course you have insider information

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

tdgeek

29659 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2432520 4-Mar-2020 14:45

I posted the below in the virus thread. My opinion is we arent doing enough or soon enough. But who's call is that?

"Isnt the Govt following WHO? Does Jacinda know more than WHO? We also have a MoH pandemic document created in 2010, which I assume we are also following, do we rip that up as well and get Jac to write another?

Its a bi partisan issue, the guidelines were already in place, there is probably not a lot of wiggle room unless we decide WHO and MoH 2010 are wrong."

Australia seems to have the same policy, so while I don't agree, I can only assume its via WHO. And that the MoH is guided by WHO, and in any case MoH knows a lot more than the PM or any politician. So if we want to cast blame, that would surely be the World Health Organisation or the Ministry of Health 2010 Pandemic document? And would we want any politician over riding those resources?

networkn

Networkn
32254 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2432524 4-Mar-2020 14:50

The Government can following the WHO Recommendations, but there are issues in NZ that WHO has no knowledge of, like our lack of ICU resources (A key part of preventing deaths for this particular virus), and the way we handle and assign resources within our own country. The WHO will make recommendations which need to be modified to reflect the spread out nature and low population density that a country like NZ has.

The medical community has advised the Government in the strongest possible terms, where there are key issues which need immediate attention

tdgeek

29659 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2432530 4-Mar-2020 14:57

networkn:

The Government can following the WHO Recommendations, but there are issues in NZ that WHO has no knowledge of, like our lack of ICU resources (A key part of preventing deaths for this particular virus), and the way we handle and assign resources within our own country. The WHO will make recommendations which need to be modified to reflect the spread out nature and low population density that a country like NZ has.

The medical community has advised the Government in the strongest possible terms, where there are key issues which need immediate attention

Ok, goof info. Did they do that when MoH created the Pandemic document in 2010?

networkn

Networkn
32254 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2432534 4-Mar-2020 15:08

tdgeek:

networkn:

The Government can following the WHO Recommendations, but there are issues in NZ that WHO has no knowledge of, like our lack of ICU resources (A key part of preventing deaths for this particular virus), and the way we handle and assign resources within our own country. The WHO will make recommendations which need to be modified to reflect the spread out nature and low population density that a country like NZ has.

The medical community has advised the Government in the strongest possible terms, where there are key issues which need immediate attention

Ok, goof info. Did they do that when MoH created the Pandemic document in 2010?

A pandemic guideline created in 2010 should regularly be updated to reflect the current state of information available (presumably we have updated and more useful information now). The medical community would almost certainly have been consulted at the time it was created one would hope, though I have no personal knowledge of the process undertaken. The thing is, THIS virus, will be slightly different, or maybe completely different, to last years one, and require different resources to be prioritized.

sir1963

3243 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#2432538 4-Mar-2020 15:17

tdgeek:

networkn:

The Government can following the WHO Recommendations, but there are issues in NZ that WHO has no knowledge of, like our lack of ICU resources (A key part of preventing deaths for this particular virus), and the way we handle and assign resources within our own country. The WHO will make recommendations which need to be modified to reflect the spread out nature and low population density that a country like NZ has.

The medical community has advised the Government in the strongest possible terms, where there are key issues which need immediate attention

Ok, goof info. Did they do that when MoH created the Pandemic document in 2010?

Best look at statisticians who do a hell of a lot of modelling of this sort of thing.

They model animal pandemics as well as ones that impact humans to see how they spread under what scenarios etc etc etc.

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#2432540 4-Mar-2020 15:18

New Zealands high level strategy for a pandemic is...

Plan for it...... done but some time ago

Keep it out.... Failed

Stamp it out... currently doubtful as there is no effective treatment or vaccine.

Manage it...... Has not started well

Manage post peak... TBA

Recover from it.......TBA

The stated objective to keep it out is "Prevent, or delay to the greatest extent possible, the arrival of the pandemic virus in New Zealand" IMHO I believe they could have been considerably more proactive and worked with more urgency. They have failed in this objective in my view due a urge to limit economic impact as opposed to public health and welbeing.

tdgeek

29659 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2432543 4-Mar-2020 15:25

networkn:

A pandemic guideline created in 2010 should regularly be updated to reflect the current state of information available (presumably we have updated and more useful information now). The medical community would almost certainly have been consulted at the time it was created one would hope, though I have no personal knowledge of the process undertaken. The thing is, THIS virus, will be slightly different, or maybe completely different, to last years one, and require different resources to be prioritized.

All viruses differ

I agree, and if WHO are at arms length as to our partcular strengths and weaknesses, then the Ministry of Health, who fall under whatever Govt is in power, has to be heavily guided by the medical expertise within that ministry. MoH then has to be the power that manages this outbreak, thats irregardless of what PM signs their paycheques.

networkn

Networkn
32254 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2433093 5-Mar-2020 12:25

tdgeek:

networkn:

A pandemic guideline created in 2010 should regularly be updated to reflect the current state of information available (presumably we have updated and more useful information now). The medical community would almost certainly have been consulted at the time it was created one would hope, though I have no personal knowledge of the process undertaken. The thing is, THIS virus, will be slightly different, or maybe completely different, to last years one, and require different resources to be prioritized.

All viruses differ

I agree, and if WHO are at arms length as to our partcular strengths and weaknesses, then the Ministry of Health, who fall under whatever Govt is in power, has to be heavily guided by the medical expertise within that ministry. MoH then has to be the power that manages this outbreak, thats irregardless of what PM signs their paycheques.

Ultimately, the PM should be directly and constantly across something this serious. I don't mean at arms length which is her usual management style (and one that hasn't worked well). She places far too much trust in her inexperienced ministers. She should be having war room meetings about this with her top people, the same people who were called in for the mosque shootings. Health Minister is calling for calm, which is fine and saying everything under control (which has been the call from every failed policy they haven't executed on well to date), and that they are doing everything they can.

I just don't have much confidence that those things are true based on what I can see and what is being reported.

1 | ... | 155 | 156 | 157 | 158 | 159 | 160 | 161 | 162 | 163 | 164 | 165 | ... | 182