Our new coalition government.

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Networkn
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#2143101 11-Dec-2018 11:50

GV27:

I guess TD that people may have had higher expectations from the way Ardern and the media promised transparent, transformational and compassionate Government during the campaign and the initial days.

That's why 'business as usual' isn't cutting the mustard for some people.

Exactly this.

tdgeek

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#2143115 11-Dec-2018 12:09

GV27:

I guess TD that people may have had higher expectations from the way Ardern and the media promised transparent, transformational and compassionate Government during the campaign and the initial days.

That's why 'business as usual' isn't cutting the mustard for some people.

Good point. National people will have a very high expectation to suit their bias, Labour people will be more forgiving to suit their biases, that's all human nature. Its politics, anyone who expects a miracle seachange into political life has their head in the sand. So take somewhere in the middle. It won't be 100% transparent, transformational and compassionate all the time. Nor will anyone forgive the mistakes forever. I'm cutting them slack, they are new, I don't care about the people that are gone as they are gone. Bottom line, policies are being enacted, that's a change. Leadership is stable.

Some here, cutting the mustard doesn't apply. Its a sad Trump thread to some. For those who are National supporters who CAN discuss without getting angry and mouthy, they are here, look forward to reading your posts.

Rikkitic

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#2143152 11-Dec-2018 12:27

A whole lotta point-scoring going on here. What some National supporters/government critics cannot seem to get is that the government, for all its real and imagined failings, is at least trying to address things that the previous government mainly tried to pretend did not exist, or at least tried to minimise the scale of. For that reason alone I am a supporter. You can't start to solve problems until you admit that there are problems. At least this government has been doing that.

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tdgeek

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#2143188 11-Dec-2018 12:38

Rikkitic:

A whole lotta point-scoring going on here. What some National supporters/government critics cannot seem to get is that the government, for all its real and imagined failings, is at least trying to address things that the previous government mainly tried to pretend did not exist, or at least tried to minimise the scale of. For that reason alone I am a supporter. You can't start to solve problems until you admit that there are problems. At least this government has been doing that.

Thats me also. When I voted last time, I had no idea if they would be useless, average, better than average. But there was no other option. New and fresh with big ideas is a start. If they don't accomplish much, little if anything is lost. That National has no leadership, which also applies to their 2IC, they have to make a change, and that will bode well for NZ. Labour will need to use their new found experience to set a more solid course for the following three years, National will need to accept that NZ exists beyond holding back whatever they can for as long as they can.

networkn

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#2143210 11-Dec-2018 12:43

Heh, I guess that's where we differ. Admitting there is an issue, but being clueless or hopeless to do something about it, isn't an improvement on someone saying they don't feel there is an issue in the first place. The net gain to those in need, is nil. Wasting Millions or Billions on projects trying to fix something, and not fixing it, isn't an improvement and it's not ok. It's a huge waste of time and energy and money.

Rikkitic

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#2143214 11-Dec-2018 12:51

That is definitely where we differ. Not doing anything at all because it might not be the (right) answer is a cop-out. It means stagnation. It is Silas Marner counting his gold coins but never spending one.

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GV27

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#2143216 11-Dec-2018 12:56

Rikkitic:

That is definitely where we differ. Not doing anything at all because it might not be the (right) answer is a cop-out. It means stagnation. It is Silas Marner counting his gold coins but never spending one.

But that's not what we have; the fact they admit there are issues and are prepared to spend money on them doesn't absolve them of having to account for how they run things and where it gets spent.

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tdgeek

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#2143219 11-Dec-2018 12:57

networkn:

Heh, I guess that's where we differ. Admitting there is an issue, but being clueless or hopeless to do something about it, isn't an improvement on someone saying they don't feel there is an issue in the first place. The net gain to those in need, is nil. Wasting Millions or Billions on projects trying to fix something, and not fixing it, isn't an improvement and it's not ok. It's a huge waste of time and energy and money.

Lot of assumptions or opinions passed off as fact. Clueless and hopeless? Not fixing it? More polemic statements. That is a sore loser attitude. So if they build a fraction of Kiwibuild homes that's no help? If they plant 100,000 trees instead of a billion, that's no help? Thats not wasted money, or energy, or time. Its waste of NZ's future if another party took the lets not do much route, that why many of the issues we face now exist. Unlike 2008, national will have policies for us to ponder for the next election, which will cover these issues. If the leadership and the old school remainder are anything to go by, thats not a lot of confidence. But they wont be there in numbers you can bank on that. They may well be a new fresh group. Which by your reasoning makes them incapable, harking back to the pre and post election banter here

The reality is the many MP's that we have across all parties are not stupid. The ones that were have gone. The ability to manage these longstanding issues exists, what is missing is the will.

networkn

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#2143221 11-Dec-2018 12:58

Not for nothing, but National were *also* prepared to spend money to fix these issues, and my bet is they would have done a better job of it.

tdgeek

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#2143254 11-Dec-2018 13:02

GV27:

Rikkitic:

That is definitely where we differ. Not doing anything at all because it might not be the (right) answer is a cop-out. It means stagnation. It is Silas Marner counting his gold coins but never spending one.

But that's not what we have; the fact they admit there are issues and are prepared to spend money on them doesn't absolve them of having to account for how they run things and where it gets spent.

They do. There is a 2017 Election Policy, we have budgets annually, thats what they promise to do, and what is being spent on that. When a budget is created, based on policy, thats the financial spending nailed down. Its a public forum being in politics, they will be accountable. Someone the other day talked about transport , no news, but there is news, and the policy document is there.

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#2143257 11-Dec-2018 13:07

networkn:

Not for nothing, but National were *also* prepared to spend money to fix these issues, and my bet is they would have done a better job of it.

You've said that a lot. National would have done this. The past doesn't indicate that. The future doesnt as it doesn't exists, that just hope. FF to next election and as I mentioned earlier they have to change, the public is more informed and wants action. They lost the election for that reason. We will need to wait, and if the win the election, they will need to perform, not be present

Rikkitic

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#2143270 11-Dec-2018 13:19

networkn:

Not for nothing, but National were *also* prepared to spend money to fix these issues, and my bet is they would have done a better job of it.

I don't want to get into a shouting match with you but I just can't let this go. I don't doubt National was prepared to spend some money on some things that couldn't be avoided, but my recollection is that their big idea was to throw most of it at 'roads of national significance', at least one for every region. There are different ways of looking at this, depending on your philosophical viewpoint. For example, it can be argued that more and better roads are a good thing if traffic jams are hurting economic performance. But it can also be argued that this is a short-sighted dead-end policy if better public transport is the only viable long-term solution. Who is wasting money then?

More roads may be welcomed by the solitary occupants of executive sedans cruising to their work in air-conditioned comfort, but they don't do much for hungry children and an overburdened health care system and those without work at all. I believe National's priorities are wrong and that is why I would never vote for them.

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networkn

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#2143328 11-Dec-2018 13:33

Rikkitic:

More roads may be welcomed by the solitary occupants of executive sedans cruising to their work in air-conditioned comfort, but they don't do much for hungry children and an overburdened health care system and those without work at all. I believe National's priorities are wrong and that is why I would never vote for them.

What trendy but tired and crazy inaccurate cliches. The roads are used by millions of people, including all manner of delivery vehicles etc. In what universe are the majority of road users only executives with airconditioning in their sedans? I assume you don't have air conditioning in your vehicle since you seem to object to it so much?

Employment is at an all time high and pretty much *anyone* who *wants* to work, could be employed. Why do you think immigration is so high? (Don't even get me started on the immigration policies of this Government).

MikeB4

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#2143363 11-Dec-2018 14:18

Public transport wont get the children from poorer families to holiday spots or see the country and learn. They wont be flying for christmas or taking a cruise, they will however more likely to be travelling by family car for christmas. I would prefer they travelled on safe modern roads as opposed the the killing feilds that non investment in roading infrastructure creates

MikeAqua

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#2143364 11-Dec-2018 14:20

Rikkitic:

What some National supporters/government critics cannot seem to get is that the government, for all its real and imagined failings, is at least trying to address things that the previous government mainly tried to pretend did not exist, or at least tried to minimise the scale of.

I'm not actually convinced they are trying to fix things as much as give the impression they are fixing things.

Maybe that's too cynical and they are trying but just not very good. At this level trying simply isn't good enough.

"Do or do not. There is no try".

I don't think labour expected to win the election or were prepared to govern at the time they were elected. They find themselves unexpectedly in power with a policy portfolio designed for opposition. They now have to implement it and they wouldn't have a clue how. They do seem to be outsourcing all the ideation and policy development by spending millions per week on committees.

Mike

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