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  Reply # 2109782 17-Oct-2018 14:32
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General policy statement

 

This Bill amends the Electoral Act 1993 in order to enhance public confidence in the integrity of the electoral system by upholding the proportionality of political party representation in Parliament as determined by electors. The Bill provides for a member to vacate their seat in Parliament if they choose to give notice to the Speaker of their ceasing parliamentary membership of the party for which they were elected. The Bill also provides for a vacancy to occur if the member’s party leader gives notice that the leader reasonably believes that the member’s actions have distorted, and are likely to continue to distort, the proportionality of political party representation in Parliament, as determined at the last general election. It is not compulsory for the party leader to give the notice that leads to a vacancy under this Bill. The giving of notice to the Speaker is at the leader’s discretion, which means the leader can take into account the circumstances and their party’s own rules.

 

I think it would be a serious mistake to pass that legislation - it gives too much executive power to a political party leader - and that power could be abused, particularly in any case where political views might change rapidly due to circumstance, and any challenge to that executive power by elected MPs could result in them being hung out to dry.

 

Edit: Oh wait - it's passed?  I hope not as above.  It appears so (I must have been asleep - or the media weren't waking me up) - it's an awful piece of legislation which needs to be repealed.

 

If JLR hadn't resigned his seat, then sure that presents a problem - but the lesser of two evils IMO.


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  Reply # 2109883 17-Oct-2018 15:34
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gzt: Wow this really surprised me. A number of media are reporting that Jami-Lee Ross -an electorate mp- could have been kicked out of parliament if he was ejected from the National party caucus. I did not know this crazy legislation applied to electorate MPs who disagreed with leaders.

Preempting any of that Ross has resigned anyway and there will be a byelection so none of that applies.

MikeAqua: My view is split - list MPs should vote along party policy, but electorate MPs can differ.

 

List MPs weren't elected as individuals, they are literally making up the numbers.  As it is now, parties can exercise votes on behalf of their absent MPs.

 

 

 

I'd go further and say we don't actually need list MPs at all.  Parties could be given additional votes they can exercise.

 


Clearly based on your comments above you will agree with me that this ability political parties have gained to remove even elected electorate MPs from parliament is not a good thing for democracy.

 

I still believe that political parties shouldn't be able to remove electorate MPs from parliament. 

 

As a long-time National supporter  I would have applied that to JLR.





Mike

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  Reply # 2109959 17-Oct-2018 17:41
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When I exercise my electorate vote, I am not voting for a party. I am voting for a local politician.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 2109983 17-Oct-2018 19:10
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MikeAqua:

 

I still believe that political parties shouldn't be able to remove electorate MPs from parliament. 

 

As a long-time National supporter  I would have applied that to JLR.

 

 

Absolutely they shouldn't.

 

Even worse, the legislation uses terms like "reasonably expected" etc (that the MP was going to go rogue).
So then somehow, somewhere, someone has to decide then argue what's reasonable and what isn't.

 

IANAL, but this isn't the same as "beyond reasonable doubt" or "balance of probabilities" - it's a vague subjective determination by someone with vested interest and political bias, to make random decisions which crush the possibility of any MP ever taking a stand on behalf of their voters. 

 

This to keep Peters happy I suppose.  Really curse him, and curse the Greens for supporting that bill in parliament.  Bloody fools.


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  Reply # 2110216 18-Oct-2018 08:53
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Fred99:

 

Even worse, the legislation uses terms like "reasonably expected" etc (that the MP was going to go rogue).
So then somehow, somewhere, someone has to decide then argue what's reasonable and what isn't.

 

IANAL, but this isn't the same as "beyond reasonable doubt" or "balance of probabilities" - it's a vague subjective determination by someone with vested interest and political bias, to make random decisions which crush the possibility of any MP ever taking a stand on behalf of their voters. 

 

This to keep Peters happy I suppose.  Really curse him, and curse the Greens for supporting that bill in parliament.  Bloody fools.

 

 

Generally "reasonably" would be interpreted to mean what a person acting reasonably would do/think.  I agree that it's subjective, but may not be as vague as you think.

 

It's a widely used term in commercial law so I'm sure there would be case law defining the term "reasonably" in a wider legal context.





Mike

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