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  Reply # 2102018 5-Oct-2018 10:11
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Paul1977:

 

tdgeek:

 

Paul1977:

 

I think making Simon Bridges leader of National was a reaction to Jacinda Ardern.

 

I personally don't like him, to me he comes across as a bit smarmy and not very genuine. But I obviously don't know the man, so my assessment from just seeing him on TV may be way off base.

 

It does seem true that all he, and National as a whole, offers is opposition for oppositions sake. I know this is nothing new, but isn't the point of fresh leadership to offer something new?

 

I'd be far more inclined to support an opposition party (or any party for that matter) who is willing to admit when the other party does something well or has a good idea.

 

Again, this is nothing new, but I'd just like to see our politicians be more concerned with the welfare of the country than simply staying in power, or trying to get back into power.

 

 

Bolds

 

1. I agree

 

2. Can't do that as public will stick to the current party

 

3. Yep, that's always an issue. rarely will you see, "you wont like this. you wont want to vote for this, but we have to"  and the usual pre election bribes. If we found a true statesman, who doesnt need the vote buying strategy, it could happen then, but thats very rare

 

 

I disagree. You can (and should) give credit where credit is due, and still oppose other policies that you have valid reasons to oppose.

 

 

 

 

I disagree as well, but that's what happens. If SB agreed with many things that JA did, lets just vote for JA. But SB will disagree with almost everything. National and Labour, who lets say have 100 policies. There is no way that for the other party who say that 99 are bad, is correct. But they will


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  Reply # 2102026 5-Oct-2018 10:16
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Paul1977:

 

It does seem true that all he, and National as a whole, offers is opposition for oppositions sake.

 

 

 

 

I've heard this criticism of SB a lot recently.  While I'm no fan of the job that he's doing, I'm not convinced that this is a valid criticism.

 

Now, it may in fact be true but still invalid...   Besides the very recent cross party support for the child poverty bill, I'm not aware of any Labour initiatives that SB hasn't been opposed to.  

 

The question for me is whether there has been any fundamentally good ideas or initiatives from the government so far that National *should* have supported but didn't?

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 2102032 5-Oct-2018 10:21
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6FIEND:

 

Paul1977:

 

It does seem true that all he, and National as a whole, offers is opposition for oppositions sake.

 

 

 

 

I've heard this criticism of SB a lot recently.  While I'm no fan of the job that he's doing, I'm not convinced that this is a valid criticism.

 

Now, it may in fact be true but still invalid...   Besides the very recent cross party support for the child poverty bill, I'm not aware of any Labour initiatives that SB hasn't been opposed to.  

 

The question for me is whether there has been any fundamentally good ideas or initiatives from the government so far that National *should* have supported but didn't?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats a loaded question. Nats will say no, Labs will say yes. In an adversarial system, if its not obviously bipartisan, such as the child poverty bill, they will both generally oppose by default even if its not that far from their own policy. They may not have a need to oppose an idea, they are opposing the promotors of that idea as not capable


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  Reply # 2102046 5-Oct-2018 10:40
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6FIEND:

 

Paul1977:

 

It does seem true that all he, and National as a whole, offers is opposition for oppositions sake.

 

 

I've heard this criticism of SB a lot recently.  While I'm no fan of the job that he's doing, I'm not convinced that this is a valid criticism.

 

Now, it may in fact be true but still invalid...   Besides the very recent cross party support for the child poverty bill, I'm not aware of any Labour initiatives that SB hasn't been opposed to.  

 

The question for me is whether there has been any fundamentally good ideas or initiatives from the government so far that National *should* have supported but didn't?

 

 

1. It is politically very problematic to oppose a bill aimed to reduce child poverty unless the bill is demonstrably incredibly flawed. I believe if National could have opposed this bill for political gains they would have.

 

2. I really don't know, I'll be honest that I'm a bit over it and don't follow the specifics of policy that closely these days.

 

 


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  Reply # 2102047 5-Oct-2018 10:43
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So...  if it's normal, expected even...  then why is SB being singled out and criticised for it?

 

Is he doing it more than other opposition leaders have in the past?  Or is it a "line" that is being pushed by other interested parties?  (either as a destabilising tactic from unimpressed members of his own party, or from supporters of the coalition)

 

 

 

I don't know, but I haven't got the sense that SB is too out of step with expectations (and history) in this regard, but there does seem to be a lot more press about it than there has been for previous opposition leaders.


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  Reply # 2102049 5-Oct-2018 10:46
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I haven't noticed any media that continually reports him as opposing for the sake of it, just here. But that's more a case as someone said earlier of the new guy bringing a fresh approach, which so far, hasn't been the case.


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  Reply # 2102055 5-Oct-2018 10:56
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6FIEND:

 

So...  if it's normal, expected even...  then why is SB being singled out and criticized for it?

 

Is he doing it more than other opposition leaders have in the past?  Or is it a "line" that is being pushed by other interested parties?  (either as a destabilising tactic from unimpressed members of his own party, or from supporters of the coalition)

 

I don't know, but I haven't got the sense that SB is too out of step with expectations (and history) in this regard, but there does seem to be a lot more press about it than there has been for previous opposition leaders.

 

 

I agree that I don't recall as much of this type of criticism when Labour was in opposition, at least not in the news.

 

Perhaps the criticism is BECAUSE it isn't out of step with history? I'd like to see supposed bold new young leadership do things differently from the past - do things better.

 

I'd always voted National, but actually voted Labour last election in no small part because I liked the idea of someone from my generation being in charge. I'll admit that thus far Labour don't seem to be doing that well, so right now I'm back on the fence.

 

I hoped a change from the old guard to the new would be great thing, but to be honest it just seems like more of the same to me (from both parties).


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  Reply # 2102063 5-Oct-2018 11:12
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Paul1977:

 

6FIEND:

 

So...  if it's normal, expected even...  then why is SB being singled out and criticized for it?

 

Is he doing it more than other opposition leaders have in the past?  Or is it a "line" that is being pushed by other interested parties?  (either as a destabilising tactic from unimpressed members of his own party, or from supporters of the coalition)

 

I don't know, but I haven't got the sense that SB is too out of step with expectations (and history) in this regard, but there does seem to be a lot more press about it than there has been for previous opposition leaders.

 

 

I agree that I don't recall as much of this type of criticism when Labour was in opposition, at least not in the news.

 

Perhaps the criticism is BECAUSE it isn't out of step with history? I'd like to see supposed bold new young leadership do things differently from the past - do things better.

 

I'd always voted National, but actually voted Labour last election in no small part because I liked the idea of someone from my generation being in charge. I'll admit that thus far Labour don't seem to be doing that well, so right now I'm back on the fence.

 

I hoped a change from the old guard to the new would be great thing, but to be honest it just seems like more of the same to me (from both parties).

 

 

I left not because of her but because of them. Letting things go and creating the resultant surpluses. For both of these new leaders and the parties, I'm giving it time. Both are rookies, I'd rather wait, see what pans out. I see prison population has started dropping after continually rising, that may or may not be Labour, but its those types of news that will build up over time and show a trend. Good, bad, or otherwise.


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  Reply # 2102073 5-Oct-2018 11:30
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tdgeek:

 

I haven't noticed any media that continually reports him as opposing for the sake of it, just here. <snip>

 

 

It may be that I am thinking about a bunch of posts here   ...but I can also recall quite a few across mainstream media as well as blogs.

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/107266790/lighten-up-nats-and-stop-barking-at-every-passing-car

 

https://thestandard.org.nz/simon-bridges-caught-barking-at-cars/

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/9l5cdg/smell_of_death_following_simon_bridges_chris/

 

https://www.noted.co.nz/currently/politics/simon-bridges-first-six-months-as-national-leader/

 

 

 

Either way, general sentiment seems to be that he's not doing a great job.  Still, to be fair, leader of the opposition is one of the worst jobs in politics, and immediately after a change in government is probably the hardest time to do the worst job.


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  Reply # 2102079 5-Oct-2018 11:36
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GV27:

 

Fred99:

 

GV27:

 

No one will knife him this far out from an election, and let's be honest, the media is never going to hold Jacinda to the same standard they'll hold the National Party leader to, whoever it is. 

 

 

What's the term called when someone does that? States "let's be honest" - then immediately issues forth a heavily biased statement of opinion.

 

 

What's the word for it when senior political reporters express frustration at National's polling not dropping, no matter what they report?

 

How is it heavily biased to say the media bought into Jacindamania? It was in their interest to hype it up and they did.

 

 

Oh dear.  CT.

 

Yes - they jumped on the #Jacindamania tag.  Cringeworthy - sure.

 

10% in preferred PM polls for leader of the opposition isn't tenable.  I don't like him.  Plenty of others don't like him either, when the party polls in the mid 40s yet the leader only polls at 10%, one might assume that 3/4 of National Party don't like him very much.

 

Don't blame the media.


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  Reply # 2102080 5-Oct-2018 11:37
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6FIEND:

 

tdgeek:

 

I haven't noticed any media that continually reports him as opposing for the sake of it, just here. <snip>

 

 

It may be that I am thinking about a bunch of posts here   ...but I can also recall quite a few across mainstream media as well as blogs.

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/107266790/lighten-up-nats-and-stop-barking-at-every-passing-car

 

https://thestandard.org.nz/simon-bridges-caught-barking-at-cars/

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/9l5cdg/smell_of_death_following_simon_bridges_chris/

 

https://www.noted.co.nz/currently/politics/simon-bridges-first-six-months-as-national-leader/  

 

Either way, general sentiment seems to be that he's not doing a great job.  Still, to be fair, leader of the opposition is one of the worst jobs in politics, and immediately after a change in government is probably the hardest time to do the worst job.

 

 

Fair enough and good points.


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  Reply # 2102084 5-Oct-2018 11:52
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6FIEND:

 

tdgeek:

 

I haven't noticed any media that continually reports him as opposing for the sake of it, just here. <snip>

 

 

It may be that I am thinking about a bunch of posts here   ...but I can also recall quite a few across mainstream media as well as blogs.

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/107266790/lighten-up-nats-and-stop-barking-at-every-passing-car

 

https://thestandard.org.nz/simon-bridges-caught-barking-at-cars/

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/9l5cdg/smell_of_death_following_simon_bridges_chris/

 

https://www.noted.co.nz/currently/politics/simon-bridges-first-six-months-as-national-leader/  

 

Either way, general sentiment seems to be that he's not doing a great job.  Still, to be fair, leader of the opposition is one of the worst jobs in politics, and immediately after a change in government is probably the hardest time to do the worst job.

 

 

Reddit and The Standard are not mainstream media.

 

The other two articles are clearly stated as "opinion pieces".

 

 


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  Reply # 2102110 5-Oct-2018 12:57
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What's your point?  (other than to be cantankerous)

 

I was just saying that I'd noticed a theme developing.


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  Reply # 2102155 5-Oct-2018 13:30
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6FIEND:

 

What's your point?  (other than to be cantankerous)

 

I was just saying that I'd noticed a theme developing.

 

 

I'd suggest that if you think you're seeing "a theme", evidenced by the 4 articles you've listed, then it looks like you're cherry-picking 4 articles out of the many hundreds of articles published in order to try and make a point.

 

I don't think that it's being "cantankerous" to mention that.  It's not even being pedantic.


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  Reply # 2102176 5-Oct-2018 13:47
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At the risk of lowing the value of this discussion even further, I'll repeat my question.

 

What's your point?


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