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  Reply # 2112050 21-Oct-2018 20:30
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Agreed.


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  Reply # 2112094 22-Oct-2018 09:30
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If national dont have a big clear out they will forever wear this issue like a badge of dishonour - and be constantly reminded of it.

 

Lets see if there are senior members willing to part with the baubles of office for the party good.


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  Reply # 2112098 22-Oct-2018 09:39
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I feel the President of the party could do to front up over the whole saga as well, I feel like he's trying to cover up his actions when he received the complaints.

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  Reply # 2112113 22-Oct-2018 10:32
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quickymart: I feel the President of the party could do to front up over the whole saga as well, I feel like he's trying to cover up his actions when he received the complaints.

 

 

 

As I posted a week ago JLS was/is clearly extremely ill as most of his ascertions have proven false and even backfired on him. I think it is decent of the "party" to say as little as possible at this stage as it wouldnt help anyone. Remember that the "party" know JLR better than us and would have realised long ago that he was ill.

 

Rather than posters calling for blood over this matter it would be more prudent to wait it out, unless of course you are a health expert or have knowledge that NZ doesnt have.


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  Reply # 2112173 22-Oct-2018 13:01
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Personally I haven't seen any indication Ross's assertions/disclosures were driven by any illness. Ross's assertions look like normal everyday politics type stuff to me the type of thing that politicians say all the time. The difference is Ross was saying that about his own party leader, and then his own party in general.

Clearly that's a very stressful situation to be in for anyone.

Having said that my biggest concern after all the revelations is for the victims of Ross's bullying and belittling and what appears to be the lack of sensible and responsible response from the National party after these revelations. As an employer and as one of New Zealand's oldest political parties the National party leadership and caucus in large respects set the tone for the nation.

Edit: I really do hope they have some kind of policy review under way. It would help them a lot at this point to take a lead on that, even if they do have to go on the back foot to defend it for a short time.

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  Reply # 2112198 22-Oct-2018 14:28
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You are only seeing what the press has reported and what JLR has said. There isn't much information from the NP regarding it's policies or specifics around the process undergone. Making the entire process public wouldn't be in the interests either party as there are privacy concerns.

 

In a situation like this, which is way more complex than most people here seem to think, you don't simply take an accusation and fire/punish the accused. An investigation should be held. If the investigation doesn't produce evidence to support either side, you are in a pretty difficult situation as an employer. You want to protect the innocent party, but it may not be clear who that is. 

 

It's very easy to judge these situations, but all the facts are not known, nor is it likely it ever will, and in some ways, that's how it should be.

 

For the record, I am not stating a position on who is at fault.

 

 


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  Reply # 2112212 22-Oct-2018 14:54
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Fair comment agree. On the other hand it appears that two journalists / Newsroom were aware of the allegations 12 months prior to the National Party and party leader which indicates to me that no policy is in place or promoted.

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  Reply # 2112223 22-Oct-2018 15:16
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Thoughts
If the National Party Hierarchy knew about some of these indiscretions why didn’t they act and inform SB. Perhaps they did and he reacted by demoting JLR which in turn resulted in his actions. There have been suggestions made that earlier leaders of the caucus may have had knowledge of his behaviour. What has happened perhaps could have been avoided if early action had been taken by the political leaders. Dealing with it in house and seeking non-disclosure agreements with the victims would give them no choice, if they wanted but to agree with leaders, especially if they wished to progress further within the political arena.
Finally to those of you who made various demands with the Young Labour Party incident I am surprised you are aren’t demanding heads to roll in this case.
I agree totally with Tau Henare. Heads of the political party have a lot to answer for if National are to recover from this


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  Reply # 2112225 22-Oct-2018 15:25
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Watching Q and A on television last night made it clearer as well. The women who were involved were happy with what they had asked for and received. They only made their views public after "so called" lies by JLR. It will all come out eventually and when it does I will take a side, but not at the moment with so much conjecture and JLR actually sectioned.




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  Reply # 2112290 22-Oct-2018 16:59
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I really hope that Ross gets all the help and support he needs. The press needs to back off and allow the heaslth professionals and family do what they need to do without a toxic press making matters worse. I have suffered depression and anxiety brought on by illness and disability. The vulnerability and fear can feel very real and it does not take much to push you further into a black space. Depression and anxiety makes every day situations and mountain to deal without a hungry press so I can certainly imagine what it is like for Ross. Depression makes one react differently and what is a mole hill for most is a Mount Everest and it often become easier to lash out instead of climbing the mountain. I have had many dark weeks and months and very scary thoughts. It is my heart felt plea that New Zealanders forget the JMR is a politician but see him is a man in need of compassion and help.





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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

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The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


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  Reply # 2112588 23-Oct-2018 09:07
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MikeB4:

 

The press needs to back off and allow the heaslth professionals and family do what they need to do without a toxic press making matters worse. 

 

 

Politicians do too.

 

If there's a case for JLR to be removed from Parliament under section 56 of the Electoral Act, the process would take 6 months minimum.

 

Keeping a sock firmly in the mouth of some of the more vocal MP's, spokespeople, bloggers, "opinion piece writers" - for 6 months - is a big ask.


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  Reply # 2112632 23-Oct-2018 11:02
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gulfa:

 

Thoughts
If the National Party Hierarchy knew about some of these indiscretions why didn’t they act and inform SB. Perhaps they did and he reacted by demoting JLR which in turn resulted in his actions. There have been suggestions made that earlier leaders of the caucus may have had knowledge of his behaviour. What has happened perhaps could have been avoided if early action had been taken by the political leaders. Dealing with it in house and seeking non-disclosure agreements with the victims would give them no choice, if they wanted but to agree with leaders, especially if they wished to progress further within the political arena.
Finally to those of you who made various demands with the Young Labour Party incident I am surprised you are aren’t demanding heads to roll in this case.
I agree totally with Tau Henare. Heads of the political party have a lot to answer for if National are to recover from this

 

 

There's an important distinction between non-consensual sexual assault of minors and consensual sexual relations between adults.  Frankly, I'm surprised that this still needs to be pointed out in this day and age.

 

There is also a very large difference in the manner that the two parties managed the situations.  Consider the outcomes from the viewpoint of the victims:

 

Labour

 

Victim-A:

 

Failing to release the report shows a blatant lack of accountability and from my perspective as a victim, is absolutely appalling.

 

The person in charge of implementing the recommendations is the person that hasn't been trusted in the first place to provide support and resolve the issue ... I don't see accountability there.

 

 

Vs. National

 

Victim-B:

 

In regards to the complaints made by myself against Jami-Lee Ross, I do want to say that those within the Party that managed the complaints did handle the situation appropriately at the time, and did all that they could to help.

 

It is Jami-Lee alone who is responsible for what happened.

 

 

 

 

Now I'm not for one minute saying that National shouldn't wear serious criticism for its handling of the JLR affair.  But trying to draw false parallels is kind of missing the point.


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  Reply # 2112739 23-Oct-2018 13:42
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Bridges announces review of party culture:

NZHerald: National Leader Simon Bridges orders internal review of party's culture. National leader Simon Bridges is ordering an internal review to ensure a culture in the party where women feel safe - and has spoken to his deputy Paula Bennett about outing Jami-Lee Ross' extra-marital affairs.

It's a very positive move but it's a little non-specific. I would have thought it would take the form of a review clarifying and amending the party reporting and procedural standards for these kinds of bullying and workplace related issues. Perhaps it will over time.

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  Reply # 2112820 23-Oct-2018 16:26
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Bluntj:

 

quickymart: I feel the President of the party could do to front up over the whole saga as well, I feel like he's trying to cover up his actions when he received the complaints.

 

 

 

As I posted a week ago JLS was/is clearly extremely ill as most of his ascertions have proven false and even backfired on him. I think it is decent of the "party" to say as little as possible at this stage as it wouldnt help anyone. Remember that the "party" know JLR better than us and would have realised long ago that he was ill.

 

Rather than posters calling for blood over this matter it would be more prudent to wait it out, unless of course you are a health expert or have knowledge that NZ doesnt have.

 

 

Look at what we do know.

 

JLR abused and harrassed colleagues and staff. They were not protected from him - in fact they were further victimised by being forced to sign NDAs, presumably 'for the good of the party' . Where's the justice in that? Look at who the targets of JLRs harrassment were - women.  It's as if for national party hierarchy the #metoo movement is for other people. This is national party hierarchy showing utter contempt for women and their place in the party - just shut up and get on with your job.

 

I'm sure that will be 'unhelpful' with the female vote.

 

We also know that national had a tactic to weaponise the harrassment claims against JLR so there was obviously no sympathy from them for JLR's condition or vulnerabilities.

 

 

 

We also know donors contribute large amounts to the party and then 'wink wink' a relative attends candidate school. Who knows, they just might get on the list.

 

Is that democracy at work ? Do you want a parliament full of the relatives of wealthy people ?

 

I can guess whose interests they'll be working for.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 2112827 23-Oct-2018 17:21
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elpenguino:

 

We also know donors contribute large amounts to the party and then 'wink wink' a relative attends candidate school. Who knows, they just might get on the list.

 

Is that democracy at work ? Do you want a parliament full of the relatives of wealthy people ?

 

I can guess whose interests they'll be working for.

 

 

 

 

Compare and contrast:

 

 

We also know Unions contribute large amounts to the party and then 'wink wink' a representative attends candidate school. Who knows, they just might get on the list.

 

Is that democracy at work ? Do you want a parliament full of Union representatives?

 

I can guess whose interests they'll be working for.

 

 

 

 

These are merely different sides of the same coin. 

 

On the surface, the JLR/Bridges saga was about party donations, but the real issues are something altogether different.


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