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  # 2114005 25-Oct-2018 18:16
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MikeB4:

 

Slater is no different than some of the individuals influencing US politics

 

 

If Slater promising to take down the National Party leader makes you no longer support National, you might want to check out who is on what side. 


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  # 2114034 25-Oct-2018 19:37
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GV27:

 

MikeB4:

 

Slater is no different than some of the individuals influencing US politics

 

 

If Slater promising to take down the National Party leader makes you no longer support National, you might want to check out who is on what side. 

 

 

Yes - LOL.

 

When I heard on the radio that Bridges reached out to Slater I just about drove off the road I was laughing so hard.

 

It does seem to confirm one thing - Bridges is even more of a clueless moron than some of his detractors (me included) could have imagined.

 

I don't like Slater either though.  I'd be happy to buy Bridges, JLR, Slater, and Collins tickets for the first Mars colonisation mission.

 

 


 
 
 
 


Lock him up!
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  # 2114039 25-Oct-2018 19:48
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That would be an interesting trip!

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 2114118 25-Oct-2018 21:52
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Fred99:

 

I don't like Slater either though.  I'd be happy to buy Bridges, JLR, Slater, and Collins tickets for the first Mars colonisation mission.

 

 

I will chip in for Paula Bennett's one-way ticket.

 

 

 

 




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  # 2114175 26-Oct-2018 07:06
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dejadeadnz:

Fred99:


I don't like Slater either though.  I'd be happy to buy Bridges, JLR, Slater, and Collins tickets for the first Mars colonisation mission.



I will chip in for Paula Bennett's one-way ticket.


 


 



Think of the Martians people, for mercy sake think of the Martians πŸ‘ΎπŸ‘½




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 2114177 26-Oct-2018 07:20
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Serious question, what good has this Slater guy done, ever? I saw him described somewhere else as "unstable" - at times, I have thought that rings quite true with some of the things he says.

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  # 2114256 26-Oct-2018 09:30
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If you want the back-story on the relationship between Slater, Bridges, JLR, Collins - here it is:

 

https://thespinoff.co.nz/unsponsored/25-10-2018/dirty-politics-2018-nicky-hager-assesses-the-jami-lee-ross-saga/

 

I expect many will dismiss that (very good article)  as lies from a spy/traitor.  Ironically, the fact that they feel that way is the result of the effectiveness of the attack-politics hatchet job done on him.  If there are valid criticisms of him, then Slater's far worse.  But he's ok, kind of, becauses he's sometimes useful. (I apologise in advance for "whataboutism")

 

Many people seem to think that NZ's low "perceived" corruption ranking means that we've got negligible real corruption. They'll continue to believe that, despite the events of the past week or two.  

 

In my opinion, there are some on the left who think that replacing Bridges with Collins would be good news for Labour's chances in 2020.  Even though they just saw America democratically elect Trump.


 
 
 
 


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  # 2114290 26-Oct-2018 10:25
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Fred99:

 

I expect many will dismiss that (very good article)  as lies from a spy/traitor.  Ironically, the fact that they feel that way is the result of the effectiveness of the attack-politics hatchet job done on him.  If there are valid criticisms of him, then Slater's far worse.  But he's ok, kind of, becauses he's sometimes useful. (I apologise in advance for "whataboutism")

 

 

I'd dismiss it because Hager is involved and I take every grain he say with a sack of salt (regardless of who is in power).

 

 





Mike

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  # 2114303 26-Oct-2018 10:54
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Hagar and Slater....   it's like watching two schoolboys fighting in a sandpit.  Mildly entertaining, but mostly painful. 

 

 

 

Chris Trotter also posed some more questions about the JLR saga.

 

Questions are also being asked about whether or not, over the course of the past month, the National leader and/or his deputy were in contact with Ross’ medical adviser/s? And, if so, whether those advisers had warned Bridges and/or Bennett that it would be unwise to do or say anything likely to jeopardise Ross’ already compromised mental state? If the public were to discover that the National Party leadership had been explicitly cautioned against naming Ross as the probable leaker of Bridges’ travel expenses – but went ahead and did it anyway – then they might form the opinion that Ross’ manic night-time ride from Auckland to Wellington, and his epic media stand-up the following morning, were entirely avoidable events.

 

Such speculation cannot possibly be helpful to Bridges and Bennett – raising as it does the thought that Ross may have been used as the unwitting instrument for rallying the National Party caucus behind a leader whom the voters showed little sign of warming to or respecting. The idea of making a mentally unwell MP the means of achieving such a disreputable objective is not likely to inspire very much in the way of trust or confidence in the putative perpetrators. Quite the reverse, in fact.

 

The problem with this sort of speculation is that much of the known conduct of the National Party leadership appears to reinforce it. If someone was intending to push a mentally fragile person over the edge, then threatening him with the anonymous testimony of four aggrieved female complainants, might recommend itself as a highly effective way of doing it. If that someone then publicly suggested that the person in question had been behaving in ways incompatible with his status as a married man, well then, it’s easy to see how the notion that he was being pushed to the limit might take a firmer grip on the public mind.

 

To the truly cynical, the sudden appearance, in the very midst of Ross’ jihad against his former National colleagues, of a sensational exposé detailing the Botany MP’s abusive and manipulative relationships with three parliamentary staffers and an unnamed National MP would elicit only the most sardonic of grins. If one was writing the script for such a political melodrama, the line given to Bridges would have to be: “Whew! That was lucky!”


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  # 2114353 26-Oct-2018 11:16
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MikeAqua:

 

I'd dismiss it because Hager is involved and I take every grain he say with a sack of salt (regardless of who is in power).

 

 

While I agree that Hager should be subject to healthy skepticism (as should anyone) - have any of his major claims or "scoops" ever been proven incorrect? Whatever you think about the guy personally, his investigation and journalism appears to be done invariably by the book.


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  # 2114356 26-Oct-2018 11:26
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allio:

 

MikeAqua:

 

I'd dismiss it because Hager is involved and I take every grain he say with a sack of salt (regardless of who is in power).

 

 

While I agree that Hager should be subject to healthy skepticism (as should anyone) - have any of his major claims or "scoops" ever been proven incorrect? Whatever you think about the guy personally, his investigation and journalism appears to be done invariably by the book.

 

 

AFAIK - no not really.

 

Anyway, there you have it. Dismissing what's written there "because Hagar is involved", - which is exactly as I expected from "team National".

 

Not one criticism of the content.  It's all about the person presenting it.

 

Ironically, the same approach was used to dismiss claims made by JLR.

 

Meanwhile, if I've got this right, the Slater camp on Whaleoil is pushing for Collins as PM, with Brownlee as deputy, with an alternative of having those positions the other way around.

 

 

 

 


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  # 2114371 26-Oct-2018 12:35
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Fred99:

 

AFAIK - no not really.

 

Anyway, there you have it. Dismissing what's written there "because Hagar is involved", - which is exactly as I expected from "team National".

 

Not one criticism of the content.  It's all about the person presenting it.

 

Ironically, the same approach was used to dismiss claims made by JLR.

 

 

I dismissed Hager when he was bagging the labour govt too ('corngate'). It's not about team anything - except perhaps team quality journalism.

 

I do think there is sometimes a grain of truth in what he says, but he embellishes it so extensively he loses credibility in my eyes.  IMO he is either dishonest or delusional.  I often read people I don't agree with because it's informative.  But hager isnt reliable enough to be informative. But just for you Fred I read the recent article you linked to.

 

There is nothing new or even very clever in it.  It seems to totally ignore the context the JLR is seriously unwell, which is relevant.

 

His work is derivative and doesn't add anything I haven't read before. I agree with him the personality politics is unhelpful but most commentators seem to think that, it's nothing new and all parties engage in it.

 

Hager also conveniently ignores the fact that attack politics were more or less introduced into this country under the Clarke governemnt, by Labour's research unit.

 

Does the Phrase 'John Key's rich mates' sound familiar?"  Or a 3 term labour MP referring to a high profile journalist as a "little creep'?  Or the same PM paying a secret libel settlement for wrongly calling someone a 'murderer'?

 

For every Slater there is a Trotter (forget the reasoned Trotter you see on TV and read his blogs) or Minto or Norman ....

 

I think Hager's journalism is rudimentary at best and he is either biased or delusional.





Mike

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  # 2114426 26-Oct-2018 13:40
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You managed 8 paragraphs which featured "whatboutism" (mentioning Clarke) and bagging Hagar, with no comment on his claims - just that you disregard them because of who stated them.

 

Made a dubious claim that Clarke "more or less introduced" attack politics - which I dispute - it's been going on forever, but is becoming more of a norm, globally.

 

 

There was some good media coverage of the Jami-Lee Ross attacks and meltdown, and also some poor coverage. The poor coverage tended to personalise it to Jami-Lee Ross, saying he is just an awful person. The better coverage analysed the bigger issues at play, in particular the ongoing influence of Dirty Politics exponents Simon Lusk and Cameron Slater on Ross, and the influence more widely of this kind of attack politics in the National Party.  But the thing missing from almost all coverage was the question of motives: why was this happening and who stood to gain?

 

Perhaps you could care to explain why Slater is (apparently always) so intricately involved in National Party internal politics.

 

 


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  # 2114477 26-Oct-2018 14:47
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Fred99:

 

Perhaps you could care to explain why Slater is (apparently always) so intricately involved in National Party internal politics.

 

 

Slater is a loose cannon.

 

It's better to have a guy like that inside the tent throwing stones mostly out, than inside throwing them in. 

 

Keep your friends close and your frenemies closer, so to speak.

 

As to Hager's claims - I didn't see any substantial claims.  He seems to be taking a chance to draw attention to his previous work and attempt to prop it up.  But I do do agree with his core thesis that attack politics is unhelpful. I suspect most people do.  He's preaching to the choir as far as the general population is concerned.

 

Which brings me to your accusation of whataboutism.  I didn't mention the labour party's history of personality politics to justify what anyone in national does, or to distract.  My point was to try and demonstrate for you that all of NZ's extant political parties engage in attack politics.  If you can't see that ... you would appear lack objectivity.





Mike

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  # 2114486 26-Oct-2018 15:16
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Slater is all about Slater. This kind of rubbish that the media loves, is all ab out self promotion and sales.


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