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bmt

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  # 2116454 29-Oct-2018 19:34
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Rikkitic:

 

Fred99:

 

MikeAqua:

 

In politics, women can go after men but men can't afford to respond in kind.

 

 

Really?

 

I'd suggest that women (in politics, management etc) who display so-called "alpha male aggressive" style dominant authoritarian behaviour are pilloried, and the standards applied to such style of so-called "leadership" is heavily biased against women.  Clark had to deal with a blogosphere which lit up with claims about her sexual preferences, her marriage etc. 

 

If women in politics are granted some level of immunity against "attack style politics" because it's seen by some to be unbecoming for a man to launch into a loud personal attack against them, then good bloody thing.  But of course instead we got comments and debate about Ardern's appearance, "stardust",  implied and direct questioning of her ability to function and be a mother at the same time, ad nauseum.

 

And that's how (some) men respond in kind.  Stop making excuses.

 

 

Pay a visit to Kiwiblog. There it is considered acceptable (and presumably 'clever') to refer to Jacinda Ardern as 'Cindy'. If men with tiny dicks can't make fun of a woman's appearance because she happens to be attractive, they try instead to demean and minimise her by referring to her as a Barbie doll. It is pretty pathetic but I guess some men just can't cope with females who don't want to stay in the kitchen and have their bottoms patted.

 

 

 

 

Don't agree with this, I call her Cindy too.


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  # 2116458 29-Oct-2018 19:43
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Rikkitic:

 

Pay a visit to Kiwiblog. There it is considered acceptable (and presumably 'clever') to refer to Jacinda Ardern as 'Cindy'. If men with tiny dicks can't make fun of a woman's appearance because she happens to be attractive, they try instead to demean and minimise her by referring to her as a Barbie doll. It is pretty pathetic but I guess some men just can't cope with females who don't want to stay in the kitchen and have their bottoms patted.

 

 

I think you are reading too much into it.

 

It's par for the course in NZ to give politicians a nickname, and not limited to either the left wing, or particularly directed at females. At least Cindy is better than Muldoon who was tagged with "Piggy"*. Bolger got "Spud" and it was considered equally clever in the left wing press not so very long ago to refer to John Key as "Shonkey". Before that I remember hearing Clark prefixed with "Commissar" on a few occasions.

 

Same thing in wartime, tagging the opponent with a demeaning or diminutive nickname makes it easier to ridicule them.

 

(* In fact as a child I had a "piggy bank" which was a bronze-coloured hollow plastic bust of Muldoon's head, with a slot in the top to put coins in).


 
 
 
 


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  # 2116459 29-Oct-2018 19:44
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Unless she invited you to, you are being demeaning and insulting.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 2116462 29-Oct-2018 19:49
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Sorry, a reply slipped in. So what is the affectionate moniker for Bridges? Simple Simon? What did they call John Key, or Bill English? I think it is demeaning and belittling. 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 2116526 29-Oct-2018 22:26
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JimmyH:

 

Rikkitic:

 

Pay a visit to Kiwiblog. There it is considered acceptable (and presumably 'clever') to refer to Jacinda Ardern as 'Cindy'. If men with tiny dicks can't make fun of a woman's appearance because she happens to be attractive, they try instead to demean and minimise her by referring to her as a Barbie doll. It is pretty pathetic but I guess some men just can't cope with females who don't want to stay in the kitchen and have their bottoms patted.

 

 

I think you are reading too much into it.

 

It's par for the course in NZ to give politicians a nickname,

 

 

Not in this case, it's sexism 101 . Referring to someone with an unwanted diminutive form of their name is a way for someone to say '  I'm going to refer to you with the form of your name normally used for a child. I'm doing that because I resent you are powerful, strong and determined while I am weak and unimportant. I don't have many tools in my tool box but from primary school I still remember how to call someone names'.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  # 2116588 30-Oct-2018 09:00
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Fred99:

 

MikeAqua:

 

In politics, women can go after men but men can't afford to respond in kind.

 

 

Really?

 

I'd suggest that women (in politics, management etc) who display so-called "alpha male aggressive" style dominant authoritarian behaviour are pilloried, and the standards applied to such style of so-called "leadership" is heavily biased against women.  Clark had to deal with a blogosphere which lit up with claims about her sexual preferences, her marriage etc. 

 

If women in politics are granted some level of immunity against "attack style politics" because it's seen by some to be unbecoming for a man to launch into a loud personal attack against them, then good bloody thing.  But of course instead we got comments and debate about Ardern's appearance, "stardust",  implied and direct questioning of her ability to function and be a mother at the same time, ad nauseum.

 

And that's how (some) men respond in kind.  Stop making excuses.

 

 

Talk to some people who have worked in politics about how voters respond when a male leader attacks a female leader.  It plays very badly for the male leader.  I'm not referring to what happens on social media I'm talking about exchanges between actual candidates. 

 

I'm not making an excuse of any kind (please explain what you think I was excusing).  I'm sharing a piece of knowledge I have accepted from people who are veterans of the sharp end of politics.





Mike

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  # 2116592 30-Oct-2018 09:08
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6FIEND:

 

Labour certainly have gone to some lengths to protect their male transgressors over the years.  Gareth Hughes, Philip Field, etc.   (and the as-yet un-named Young Labour member from the Waihi camp)

 

 

I think you mean Darren Hughes

 

Gareth Hughes is a Green party list MP. 





Mike

 
 
 
 


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  # 2116595 30-Oct-2018 09:09
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Even if this is true what is your point? That it somehow compensates for all the abuse, discrimination, and harassment women have had to put up with for generations? Not to mention unequal pay and poorer job opportunities and insecure male egos calling you 'Cindy'?

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 2116605 30-Oct-2018 09:24
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MikeAqua:

 

I think you mean Darren Hughes

 

 

You're quite correct.   My mistake.


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  # 2116847 30-Oct-2018 13:29
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Rikkitic:

 

Even if this is true what is your point? That it somehow compensates for all the abuse, discrimination, and harassment women have had to put up with for generations? Not to mention unequal pay and poorer job opportunities and insecure male egos calling you 'Cindy'?

 

 

My point was/is that the Ardern has an opportunity to attack Bridges in a way that he can't respond to. That is all.

 

She isn't yet.  Whether she eventually goes there will reveal how committed she really is to cleaning up politics.

 

I predict she will go there before the next election.

 

I wasn't thinking of any of the other stuff you have listed in your nano-rant above.

 

 





Mike

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  # 2116850 30-Oct-2018 13:40
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Call it what you like but in politics, certainly in this country, politicians tend to use whatever weapons they have available. Ardern says she wants to raise the tone of debate, and I certainly hope she succeeds, but if she does decide to go for the juggler, she is doing nothing that no male politician has not done before her. If being female gives her an advantage, so what? Males are also quick to use whatever advantage they have.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 2116855 30-Oct-2018 14:11
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Rikkitic:

 

Call it what you like but in politics, certainly in this country, politicians tend to use whatever weapons they have available. Ardern says she wants to raise the tone of debate, and I certainly hope she succeeds, but if she does decide to go for the juggler, she is doing nothing that no male politician has not done before her. If being female gives her an advantage, so what? Males are also quick to use whatever advantage they have.

 

 

If Ardern really does want to improve the tone of politics, then I support her too (moral support I won't ever vote for her).  If she doesn't and ends up getting peornsal, then she is just another politician which isn't a big deal at all.

 

I'm not sure why you feel the need to justify Ardern's possible potential future behaviour by engaging in negative stereotypes of men.   Two-wrongs feminism isn't very convincing.

 

It's also unclear to me what you have against Jugglers.





Mike

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  # 2116917 30-Oct-2018 15:31
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I'm not sure why you feel a need to claim that women have an unfair advantage in political debate. Are you just trying to excuse poor male performance? In any case, I am more inclined to agree with Charlotte Whitton's observation:

 

“Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily, this is not difficult.”

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 2116946 30-Oct-2018 16:27
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Rikkitic:

 

I'm not sure why you feel a need to claim that women have an unfair advantage in political debate. Are you just trying to excuse poor male performance? In any case, I am more inclined to agree with Charlotte Whitton's observation:

 

“Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily, this is not difficult.”

 

 

I wasn't claiming anything was unfair.  Just that there is an opportunity Ardern isn't exploiting.  You are trying to read an ulterior motive or objection into my observation.  There simply wasn't one.





Mike

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  # 2116947 30-Oct-2018 16:31
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Fair enough. I am happy to let this lie. I enjoy most of your posts and respect your views, even when I don't agree with them. Let us move on.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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