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  # 2102183 5-Oct-2018 13:59
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It is the role of Her Magesty's Opposition to question the Government. Even if the Opposition agrees with a Bill or policy it should still question it and stimulate debate in the House. Supporting and debating are seperate things and if the opposition fails to question the Government we simply have a rubber stamp Parliament and that is bad government.





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There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 2102184 5-Oct-2018 14:09
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MikeB4:

 

It is the role of Her Magesty's Opposition to question the Government. Even if the Opposition agrees with a Bill or policy it should still question it and stimulate debate in the House. Supporting and debating are seperate things and if the opposition fails to question the Government we simply have a rubber stamp Parliament and that is bad government.

 

 

Sure, but their is a difference between questioning and opposing for the sake of it.


 
 
 
 




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  # 2102185 5-Oct-2018 14:14
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Paul1977:

 

MikeB4:

 

It is the role of Her Magesty's Opposition to question the Government. Even if the Opposition agrees with a Bill or policy it should still question it and stimulate debate in the House. Supporting and debating are seperate things and if the opposition fails to question the Government we simply have a rubber stamp Parliament and that is bad government.

 

 

Sure, but their is a difference between questioning and opposing for the sake of it.

 

 

I disagree, opposition brings questions and debate and that can highlight shortcomings, mistakes and improvements to Bills. It is a foundation of our democracy.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 2102194 5-Oct-2018 14:31
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MikeB4:

 

I disagree, opposition brings questions and debate and that can highlight shortcomings, mistakes and improvements to Bills. It is a foundation of our democracy.

 

 

We'll probably have to agree to disagree.

 

I'm all for questions being asked and shortcomings being highlighted etc. And I'm all for opposition, where it is genuine and justified. But when I see opposition for no other reason than political gain, I don't see how that helps democracy or the people that these politicians are meant to be serving.

 

 


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  # 2102198 5-Oct-2018 14:40
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6FIEND:

 

At the risk of lowing the value of this discussion even further, I'll repeat my question.

 

What's your point?

 

 

That it's risky to try to gauge public opinion from reading a limited selection of opinion pieces and blogs.


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  # 2102200 5-Oct-2018 14:56
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Fred99:

 

6FIEND:

 

At the risk of lowing the value of this discussion even further, I'll repeat my question.

 

What's your point?

 

 

That it's risky to try to gauge public opinion from reading a limited selection of opinion pieces and blogs.

 

 

Well then, you have misunderstood me.

 

I was not trying to gauge public opinion at all.  I was merely saying that I'd noticed a theme beginning to emerge - both in commentary here on GZ, and in the broader sense across some blogs and mainstream media.  I wasn't attempting to provide an exhaustive list of all examples, I just copied a handful from the first page of a simple Google search.  If you'd like some more windmills to tilt at, I'll PM you a few more links and let this topic get back on track.


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  # 2102375 6-Oct-2018 08:15
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You chose The Standard though - they won't be happy until the Nats are swinging from the lamposts.

If you want real proof Bridges is struggling with cut-through, read what people say about him on Kiwiblog. They should be his biggest supporters.

 
 
 
 


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  # 2102417 6-Oct-2018 09:54
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I don't think it's new.  Polls conducted before he was leader weren't favourable, whether that was the general population - or split between Nat/Lab supporters.  

 

Just my opinion - he doesn't have the "common touch", never did, and never will.  No point arguing about that or trying to define specifically what it is that's lacking - you know it when you see it.  Many leaders and hopeful leaders from both sides over the years had what it takes in theory, but failed due to the same problem - not lack of talent by anything measurable. 


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  # 2102443 6-Oct-2018 10:25
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I agree with you on that one. Politics aside, when I see him speaking on TV, he just doesn't move me at all, in either direction. He has been described as being like a used car salesman, but I don't see him that way. That stereotype suggests a glib fast-talker and he is not. He seems to lack passion and conviction and he speaks like he is reading from a script, while kind of half-fumbling his words. I am no National supporter by any means but if I was forced to choose someone, I would say Judith Collins has a lot more pizzazz.

 

On a related note, I am struck by the deafening silence here from the usual suspects when it comes to National's recent stuff-ups and own goals. After the election, the right-wing lobby couldn't wait to put the boot in. Every government misstep was mercilessly pilloried, celebrated and dissected while being raked over the coals. National's recent performance has been at least as bad, yet the choir is very muted about it. I guess neither side has a monopoly when it comes to shooting themselves in the foot. What a pity for New Zealand.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 2102447 6-Oct-2018 10:38
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The same applies to the successful United Nations trip. It went very well, so lets not talk about it. 


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  # 2102558 6-Oct-2018 17:00
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Simon Bridges is hopeless. No personality, poor public speaker, no rapport with the public. He's dead in the water. Next please.

 

And that's from someone who would normally vote National although at the moment I don't feel inspired enough to vote for anyone. They are all equally inept.

 

 


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  # 2103170 8-Oct-2018 09:27
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Rikkitic:

 

National's recent performance has been at least as bad, yet the choir is very muted about it. I guess neither side has a monopoly when it comes to shooting themselves in the foot. What a pity for New Zealand.

 

 

I think that's quite a stretch.  I'm definitely no Bridges fan, but his mistakes have been relatively minor compared to what the coalition have been up to.

 

  • He's made the wrong call in calling for the inquiry about the leak.
  • He's made a hash of Jamie-Lee Ross's departure announcement.
  • He's failed to connect with the electorate.

What else has National done that should be lambasted on this fine forum?


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  # 2103176 8-Oct-2018 09:52
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6FIEND:

 

Rikkitic:

 

National's recent performance has been at least as bad, yet the choir is very muted about it. I guess neither side has a monopoly when it comes to shooting themselves in the foot. What a pity for New Zealand.

 

 

I think that's quite a stretch.  I'm definitely no Bridges fan, but his mistakes have been relatively minor compared to what the coalition have been up to.

 

  • He's made the wrong call in calling for the inquiry about the leak.
  • He's made a hash of Jamie-Lee Ross's departure announcement.
  • He's failed to connect with the electorate.

What else has National done that should be lambasted on this fine forum?

 

 

Here's a few:

 

Judith Collins (re)tweeting conspiracy theory from hard-right fake news websites, and when flamed about it, doubles-down on the CT.  (This was fake news about France / age of consent).

 

Bridges backing Trump's call to accelerate the failing "war on drugs" - which hasn't been working since introduced in the Reagan era.

 

Bridges tweets / comments condemning tenants of properties who'd been offered compensation for being unfairly turfed out of their homes due to flawed policies for "meth testing" in place during the last National government.  Yes - in some cases some of the tenants may have been illicit drug users, in some cases they wouldn't have been.  Bridges' position was pushing "guilty until proven innocent".  

 

 


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  # 2103223 8-Oct-2018 10:52
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Yawn...

Somebody quotes a source that you disapprove of (again). Fact check - France does not have a minimum age of consent and refused to enact one when reviewing their legislation that covered it (despite promising to)

Somebody agrees with a policy (along with 129 other countries) that you disapprove of.

Someone says something that is insensitive to victims who are collateral damage of illicit drug use.

These are more like differences of opinion than major mistakes. I mean nobody got sexually assaulted. Nobody was physically assaulted. Nobody mislead Parliament. Nobody started borrowing billions “off the books” Nobody tanked a multi billion dollar industry on a whim.

In context, these are minutiae

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  # 2103320 8-Oct-2018 13:17
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I posted a response to this but quoted the wrong link so deleted it. This gives a much better explanation.

 

There is in fact an age of consent in France and it is 15. The problem is that the legal definition is so muddled that it is almost useless. But technically it does exist and Judith Collins went off the deep end because of a fake news report.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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