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835 posts

Ultimate Geek
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Topic # 242150 13-Oct-2018 11:04
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What does everyone think ?

 

It is becoming increasingly apparent that the Saudi's assassinated him in their embassy in Istanbul

 

     

  1. Will anything of real consequence occur to Saudi?
  2. Should our Govt severe relations if it is determined or concluded he was assassinated ?

 

 

 

 


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Glurp
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  Reply # 2107213 13-Oct-2018 11:42
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My thought is that the Saudis are a bunch of murdering b'tards and their good chum Trump isn't going to do a damn thing to jeopardise a billion dollars worth of death and destruction turnover and if the USA doesn't do anything neither will anyone else and the Saudis will continue to murder with impunity anyone who incurs their disapproval. What else is new?

 

 

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 




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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2107223 13-Oct-2018 12:12
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Rikkitic:

 

My thought is that the Saudis are a bunch of murdering b'tards and their good chum Trump isn't going to do a damn thing to jeopardise a billion dollars worth of death and destruction turnover and if the USA doesn't do anything neither will anyone else and the Saudis will continue to murder with impunity anyone who incurs their disapproval. What else is new?

 

 

Yes I too can't really see the US putting their arms trade to the US valued at US110b in 2017 despite Trumps recent comments and other Snr figures in the US politics being to say the least not happy about it

 

It will be interesting to see what the EU and even NZ's govt response is to this if it is concluded it was murder.

 

Note NZ trade value with Saudi is approx $1b

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2107233 13-Oct-2018 12:46
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Considering how pissed off they were about those sheep in opposition, I'm expecting nothing more than a full-scale invasion.


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 2107308 13-Oct-2018 15:43
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I don't think all Saudi's are murdering b's as you call it (surprised this language is allowed here). Clearly this new regime is dumb to have ordered such a public execution and to think they will get away with it.

 

The new "proof" has only just been reported and I am confident the world will take an appropriate response, especially considering what they have done to Qatar with the blockade. Nothing will change.

 

Executions in a large number of countries have been going on since Adam and Eve and will continue long after we have departed this earth. It is how they dispense their definition of Justice. Do you really think Britains response to Russias poisonings will change the way Putin dispenses justice in the future? Do you really think Trump will change the way Nth Korea dispenses justice after a few so called peace conferences and camera smilies?

 

Whilst we find it abhorrent, it will not be us screaming on forums or facebook that change it. 




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  Reply # 2107427 13-Oct-2018 19:46
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Bluntj:

 

I don't think all Saudi's are murdering b's as you call it (surprised this language is allowed here). Clearly this new regime is dumb to have ordered such a public execution and to think they will get away with it.

 

The new "proof" has only just been reported and I am confident the world will take an appropriate response, especially considering what they have done to Qatar with the blockade. Nothing will change.

 

Executions in a large number of countries have been going on since Adam and Eve and will continue long after we have departed this earth. It is how they dispense their definition of Justice. Do you really think Britains response to Russias poisonings will change the way Putin dispenses justice in the future? Do you really think Trump will change the way Nth Korea dispenses justice after a few so called peace conferences and camera smilies?

 

Whilst we find it abhorrent, it will not be us screaming on forums or facebook that change it. 

 

 

I tend to agree on regards to nothing will change. The sad part will be that is it likely they will (like Russia) get away with it despite how clumsy it has been done (assuming that is what occurred). The unfortunate reality is $ i.e trade is worth more than morals and ethics. Would NZ risk 1b in trade ?

 

At the end of the day the likely consequence will simply be increased awareness of that regimes practices. Imho it is only a matter of time (1-5 decades) before all authoritarian regimes come to their end

 

I am informed the issue will be raised at the NZ PM's meeting Monday but I suspect until there is absolute proof the predictable response will be we are awaiting proof and if that occurs perhaps the usual UN talk fest will occur with no consequence :(

 

 


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 2107430 13-Oct-2018 20:10
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xlinknz:

 

Bluntj:

 

I don't think all Saudi's are murdering b's as you call it (surprised this language is allowed here). Clearly this new regime is dumb to have ordered such a public execution and to think they will get away with it.

 

The new "proof" has only just been reported and I am confident the world will take an appropriate response, especially considering what they have done to Qatar with the blockade. Nothing will change.

 

Executions in a large number of countries have been going on since Adam and Eve and will continue long after we have departed this earth. It is how they dispense their definition of Justice. Do you really think Britains response to Russias poisonings will change the way Putin dispenses justice in the future? Do you really think Trump will change the way Nth Korea dispenses justice after a few so called peace conferences and camera smilies?

 

Whilst we find it abhorrent, it will not be us screaming on forums or facebook that change it. 

 

 

I tend to agree on regards to nothing will change. The sad part will be that is it likely they will (like Russia) get away with it despite how clumsy it has been done (assuming that is what occurred). The unfortunate reality is $ i.e trade is worth more than morals and ethics. Would NZ risk 1b in trade ?

 

At the end of the day the likely consequence will simply be increased awareness of that regimes practices. Imho it is only a matter of time (1-5 decades) before all authoritarian regimes come to their end

 

I am informed the issue will be raised at the NZ PM's meeting Monday but I suspect until there is absolute proof the predictable response will be we are awaiting proof and if that occurs perhaps the usual UN talk fest will occur with no consequence :(

 

 

 

 

The real question is could NZ afford to lose 1bn in trade. Probably far worse things happen in other countries we trade with eg China and many others.

 

Just stopping trade will only hurt us, not them. Better to use forums like the UN to try and make change rather than cutting off our nose dispite our face.




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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2107440 13-Oct-2018 20:35
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Bluntj:

 

The real question is could NZ afford to lose 1bn in trade. Probably far worse things happen in other countries we trade with eg China and many others.

 

Just stopping trade will only hurt us, not them. Better to use forums like the UN to try and make change rather than cutting off our nose dispite our face.

 

 

There is no way NZ will risk 1b in trade. A few year back NZ did expel Israel embassy when they stole NZ passports but when that occurred it was on an issue that directly touched on NZ sovereignty, the Khashoggi issue does not directly impact NZ since it was not done in NZ or to a NZ journalist so a response will be proportional to the impact to NZ i.e. we'll likely join an ineffectual chorus at the UN and express our view to the local ambassador

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 2107510 14-Oct-2018 07:55
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Bluntj:

 

I don't think all Saudi's are murdering b's as you call it (surprised this language is allowed here). Clearly this new regime is dumb to have ordered such a public execution and to think they will get away with it.

 

 

What "execution"?   If that's what it was (a state sanctioned killing approved by a justice system), then for folks in favour of capital punishment and execution by any state, then it's not a legal issue or a crime, just a question of what's fair and reasonable. It was assassination/murder, apparently, as any extrajudicial killing should be seen to be - whether or not sanctioned by despots.

 

Of course they'll "get away with it".  


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2107567 14-Oct-2018 09:55
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LOL dumb. They've done just enough to hint that they either grabbed or killed him, and just enough to make it plausibly deniable.  So they can send a very clear statement while giving their allies wiggle room to not be able to sanction them for it. Not really dumb at all.




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  Reply # 2107647 14-Oct-2018 12:30
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vulcannz:

 

LOL dumb. They've done just enough to hint that they either grabbed or killed him, and just enough to make it plausibly deniable.  So they can send a very clear statement while giving their allies wiggle room to not be able to sanction them for it. Not really dumb at all.

 

 

Assuming what appears to have occurred has indeed occurred it was imho poorly planned operation. I would not be surprised that those responsible for the planning will also now be at risk...'live by the sword die by the sword' has a literal meaning in Saudi

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 2107757 14-Oct-2018 20:04
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xlinknz:

 

vulcannz:

 

LOL dumb. They've done just enough to hint that they either grabbed or killed him, and just enough to make it plausibly deniable.  So they can send a very clear statement while giving their allies wiggle room to not be able to sanction them for it. Not really dumb at all.

 

 

Assuming what appears to have occurred has indeed occurred it was imho poorly planned operation. I would not be surprised that those responsible for the planning will also now be at risk...'live by the sword die by the sword' has a literal meaning in Saudi

 

 

You're kidding.  The guy who planned it has a US$500 million superyacht, a $300 million castle in France, and the son of the POTUS tweeting fake news that that the guy he murdered was a terrorist / terrorist sympathiser. 




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  Reply # 2107758 14-Oct-2018 20:13
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Fred99:

 

xlinknz:

 

vulcannz:

 

LOL dumb. They've done just enough to hint that they either grabbed or killed him, and just enough to make it plausibly deniable.  So they can send a very clear statement while giving their allies wiggle room to not be able to sanction them for it. Not really dumb at all.

 

 

Assuming what appears to have occurred has indeed occurred it was imho poorly planned operation. I would not be surprised that those responsible for the planning will also now be at risk...'live by the sword die by the sword' has a literal meaning in Saudi

 

 

You're kidding.  The guy who planned it has a US$500 million superyacht, a $300 million castle in France, and the son of the POTUS tweeting fake news that that the guy he murdered was a terrorist / terrorist sympathiser. 

 

 

You misunderstand me I mean Mohammed bin Salman 'the reformer' will not be happy with his 'subjects' (the team) who (if it is true) planned the operation which have now brought him and his kingdom into the spot light

 

 


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  Reply # 2107761 14-Oct-2018 20:28
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xlinknz:

 

Fred99:

 

xlinknz:

 

vulcannz:

 

LOL dumb. They've done just enough to hint that they either grabbed or killed him, and just enough to make it plausibly deniable.  So they can send a very clear statement while giving their allies wiggle room to not be able to sanction them for it. Not really dumb at all.

 

 

Assuming what appears to have occurred has indeed occurred it was imho poorly planned operation. I would not be surprised that those responsible for the planning will also now be at risk...'live by the sword die by the sword' has a literal meaning in Saudi

 

 

You're kidding.  The guy who planned it has a US$500 million superyacht, a $300 million castle in France, and the son of the POTUS tweeting fake news that that the guy he murdered was a terrorist / terrorist sympathiser. 

 

 

You misunderstand me I mean Mohammed bin Salman 'the reformer' will not be happy with his 'subjects' (the team) who (if it is true) planned the operation which have now brought him and his kingdom into the spot light

 

 

Yes true. I think I'll be going with @vulcannz comment about "plausible deniability" and the gullibility of the West supporting that tyrant.

 

There's a NY Times opinion piece here (sorry - behind paywall)

 

If a Prince Murders a Journalist, That’s Not a Hiccup

 

In the end, Saudi Arabia played Kushner, Trump and his other American acolytes for suckers.

 

Ahh - yes - but there was also a lot of money changing hands.  They'll continue to support him.

 

 




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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2107784 14-Oct-2018 21:09
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@Fred99

 

It will interesting to see how this all unfolds.

 

Trump Snr seems to be keeping his options open statements like "severe punishment" and "they (Saudi) wouldn't last 2 weeks without us" (imho not too far from the truth.

 

The best out for US and Saudi if required could be 'unsanctioned activity by Saudi's own agencies' i.e. find a scapegoat (hence my view if I was on the hit team I would run now if they could), that said Turkey clearly is very very unhappy and already had strained relations with Saudi, add that Iran and Turkey are close...I get a feeling this may be a catalyst for a change of the dynamics in the Mid East


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  Reply # 2107810 14-Oct-2018 21:54
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So if Turkey has these recordings why are they not being released  ??.

 

Of course any consequence will just be lip service.





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