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Glurp
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  Reply # 2130425 20-Nov-2018 15:12
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6FIEND:

 

Rikkitic:

 

Again, it is not the intent that matters. It is the effect on those who witness it.

 

 

I'm not arguing that the float was "ok". 

 

But I disagree with your statement above.  The intent matters a great deal.  It would/should determine which of two types of responses are made:

 

1) Your behaviour is ignorant and insensitive to many people and is no longer tolerated in our society.  Please remedy this ASAP!

 

2) You're a racist and you should be ashamed of yourselves!

 

 

 

Most of all, I feel for the children who appear to have been inadvertently caught up in this :-(

 

 

If you do something that gravely offends someone, it is your act that offends, not your intent. They will be offended regardless.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 2130430 20-Nov-2018 15:22
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Rikkitic:

 

This is not about tweets or posts. It is about (white) people blackening their faces and parading.

 

 

My point is when someone tweets about it more people see it.  Therefore people who weren't at the parade and would never have known are hurt. 

 

Under your effects matter not intention argument, people who call something out are a problem as they increase the amount of hurt.  The logical response is to sweep things under the carpet to minimise effects.

 

If we focus on effects not intentions ... then if people get away with something (no-one is hurt) everything is OK.





Mike

 
 
 
 




Glurp
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  Reply # 2130441 20-Nov-2018 15:33
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MikeAqua:

 

My point is when someone tweets about it more people see it.  Therefore people who weren't at the parade and would never have known are hurt. 

 

Under your effects matter not intention argument, people who call something out are a problem as they increase the amount of hurt.  The logical response is to sweep things under the carpet to minimise effects.

 

If we focus on effects not intentions ... then if people get away with something (no-one is hurt) everything is OK.

 

 

I get what you are saying. I just don't agree with it. If you happen to be an African-American (or other black person, but especially African-American) and you witness a parade in blackface sail by, the effect on you is going to be much more intense than reading about it on Twitter. The two cannot be compared. I am not arguing that such offensive behaviour should not be called out. That is twisting my point. Bad behaviour is bad behaviour, regardless of the excuse. Pointing it out is something else altogether.

 

 

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 2130490 20-Nov-2018 16:09
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Rikkitic:

 

I am not arguing that such offensive behaviour should not be called out. That is twisting my point. Bad behaviour is bad behaviour, regardless of the excuse. Pointing it out is something else altogether.

 

 

I know you're not arguing that, but it's an inevitable extension of "effects matter and intentions don't".

 

If intentions don't matter then behaving badly and pointing out bad behaviour are initially ethically indistinguishable.

 

If we disregard intent, then from a purely logical perspective we don't know which is worse until we have measured effects.

 

If we look only at effects, butterflies have a lot to answer for.

 

In reality we look at both intent and effect and it's pretty obvious bad behaviour is worse from a pragmatic standpoint.





Mike



Glurp
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  Reply # 2130495 20-Nov-2018 16:26
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I may have to give you that one. Let me think about it for awhile. It doesn't feel right but I'm not sure how to pursue it. Maybe the answer, as you suggest, is both matter, but one matters more than the other.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 2130574 20-Nov-2018 19:27
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I have to admit I don't remember the last time I came across racism but I know that if I did I would give them the silent treatment and figure they weren't well educated. Colour I believe has little to do with anything. Brains on the other hand....laughing


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