Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 


Lock him up!
10682 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 2130425 20-Nov-2018 15:12
Send private message

6FIEND:

 

Rikkitic:

 

Again, it is not the intent that matters. It is the effect on those who witness it.

 

 

I'm not arguing that the float was "ok". 

 

But I disagree with your statement above.  The intent matters a great deal.  It would/should determine which of two types of responses are made:

 

1) Your behaviour is ignorant and insensitive to many people and is no longer tolerated in our society.  Please remedy this ASAP!

 

2) You're a racist and you should be ashamed of yourselves!

 

 

 

Most of all, I feel for the children who appear to have been inadvertently caught up in this :-(

 

 

If you do something that gravely offends someone, it is your act that offends, not your intent. They will be offended regardless.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


5385 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2130430 20-Nov-2018 15:22
Send private message

Rikkitic:

 

This is not about tweets or posts. It is about (white) people blackening their faces and parading.

 

 

My point is when someone tweets about it more people see it.  Therefore people who weren't at the parade and would never have known are hurt. 

 

Under your effects matter not intention argument, people who call something out are a problem as they increase the amount of hurt.  The logical response is to sweep things under the carpet to minimise effects.

 

If we focus on effects not intentions ... then if people get away with something (no-one is hurt) everything is OK.





Mike

 
 
 
 




Lock him up!
10682 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 2130441 20-Nov-2018 15:33
Send private message

MikeAqua:

 

My point is when someone tweets about it more people see it.  Therefore people who weren't at the parade and would never have known are hurt. 

 

Under your effects matter not intention argument, people who call something out are a problem as they increase the amount of hurt.  The logical response is to sweep things under the carpet to minimise effects.

 

If we focus on effects not intentions ... then if people get away with something (no-one is hurt) everything is OK.

 

 

I get what you are saying. I just don't agree with it. If you happen to be an African-American (or other black person, but especially African-American) and you witness a parade in blackface sail by, the effect on you is going to be much more intense than reading about it on Twitter. The two cannot be compared. I am not arguing that such offensive behaviour should not be called out. That is twisting my point. Bad behaviour is bad behaviour, regardless of the excuse. Pointing it out is something else altogether.

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


5385 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2130490 20-Nov-2018 16:09
Send private message

Rikkitic:

 

I am not arguing that such offensive behaviour should not be called out. That is twisting my point. Bad behaviour is bad behaviour, regardless of the excuse. Pointing it out is something else altogether.

 

 

I know you're not arguing that, but it's an inevitable extension of "effects matter and intentions don't".

 

If intentions don't matter then behaving badly and pointing out bad behaviour are initially ethically indistinguishable.

 

If we disregard intent, then from a purely logical perspective we don't know which is worse until we have measured effects.

 

If we look only at effects, butterflies have a lot to answer for.

 

In reality we look at both intent and effect and it's pretty obvious bad behaviour is worse from a pragmatic standpoint.





Mike



Lock him up!
10682 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 2130495 20-Nov-2018 16:26
Send private message

I may have to give you that one. Let me think about it for awhile. It doesn't feel right but I'm not sure how to pursue it. Maybe the answer, as you suggest, is both matter, but one matters more than the other.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


44 posts

Geek


  # 2130574 20-Nov-2018 19:27
Send private message

I have to admit I don't remember the last time I came across racism but I know that if I did I would give them the silent treatment and figure they weren't well educated. Colour I believe has little to do with anything. Brains on the other hand....laughing


BDFL - Memuneh
64673 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator
Trusted
Geekzone
Lifetime subscriber

  # 2154786 5-Jan-2019 11:42
Send private message

Mechanic allegedly calls a real-estate agent "terrorist" because he is "'dark, swarthy guy' with a beard".

 

"Wallace said he was having a laugh when he called the man a terrorist. "I said, oh you look like a bit of a terrorist, just like that, joking around," he said."

 

Racists will be racists and not even admit it.





 
 
 
 


BDFL - Memuneh
64673 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator
Trusted
Geekzone
Lifetime subscriber

  # 2154787 5-Jan-2019 11:45
Send private message

Also on this note, there's a white supremacist movement around the Wellington region, who meets in public places, etc. They spread posters around the city. Their website has photos of their members at pubs and bars - all with their faces covered. 





BDFL - Memuneh
64673 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator
Trusted
Geekzone
Lifetime subscriber

  # 2161706 15-Jan-2019 18:35
One person supports this post
Send private message


Lock him up!
10682 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 2161709 15-Jan-2019 18:50
Send private message

I'm ashamed that we have such councillors in New Zealand.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


423 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

  # 2161918 16-Jan-2019 10:53
Send private message

To clarify issues like this it can be helpful to try the shoe on the other foot. If you lived in a country where white faces are a minority, and witnessed a parade of black people with their faces painted white, representing a group you regard as well principled, under an anthem proclaiming racial equality (tagline "it doesn't matter if you're black or white"), then what would you make of it?  Would you be offended?





McLean




Lock him up!
10682 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 2161921 16-Jan-2019 10:57
Send private message

That is a fake argument. What makes blackface offensive to blacks is the long history of abuse that goes with it. Think slavery, lynchings, discrimination, mockery, humiliation, deprivation. Walk in those shoes for three hundred years and then make glib statements about how people shouldn't be so hypersensitive.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 




Lock him up!
10682 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 2161944 16-Jan-2019 12:13
Send private message

And Chong has apologised. At least that shows even he understands that such comments are offensive to many people.

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


1 | 2 | 3 
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Microsoft New Zealand Partner Awards results
Posted 18-Oct-2019 10:18


Logitech introduces new Made for Google keyboard and mouse devices
Posted 16-Oct-2019 13:36


MATTR launches to accelerate decentralised identity
Posted 16-Oct-2019 10:28


Vodafone X-Squad powers up for customers
Posted 16-Oct-2019 08:15


D Link ANZ launches EXO Smart Mesh Wi Fi Routers with McAfee protection
Posted 15-Oct-2019 11:31


Major Japanese retailer partners with smart New Zealand technology IMAGR
Posted 14-Oct-2019 10:29


Ola pioneers one-time passcode feature to fight rideshare fraud
Posted 14-Oct-2019 10:24


Spark Sport new home of NZC matches from 2020
Posted 10-Oct-2019 09:59


Meet Nola, Noel Leeming's new digital employee
Posted 4-Oct-2019 08:07


Registrations for Sprout Accelerator open for 2020 season
Posted 4-Oct-2019 08:02


Teletrac Navman welcomes AI tech leader Jens Meggers as new President
Posted 4-Oct-2019 07:41


Vodafone makes voice of 4G (VoLTE) official
Posted 4-Oct-2019 07:36


2degrees Reaches Milestone of 100,000 Broadband Customers
Posted 1-Oct-2019 09:17


Nokia 1 Plus available in New Zealand from 2nd October
Posted 30-Sep-2019 17:46


Ola integrates Apple Pay as payment method in New Zealand
Posted 25-Sep-2019 09:51



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.