Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11
817 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 369


  Reply # 2172982 4-Feb-2019 18:40
Send private message quote this post

The only way it will happen is if National decides they can take enough votes from the Greens to put them under the threshold without losing too many votes themselves. It's more likely if NZ First is marginal, otherwise they'd just be losing bargaining power when it comes to negotiations if they lose too many.

 

Separate to this, of course, is how well you trust National to make a calculated guess on the above. 


15358 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2984
Inactive user


  Reply # 2173029 4-Feb-2019 19:15
Send private message quote this post

shk292:

 

Darude34:

 

 

 

I'm not disagreeing with you. I just think everybody should get the same when they turn 65. It does not matter if you have been a slave to some corporate company and paid taxes, or if you have been on work and income your whole life. We all have the right to retire equal. I fully support means testing, if somebody has their house paid for and $$$$ in kiwisaver why should they receive super too? The less money the babyboomers get the better, they don't need it. Personally I would like to see means testing taken as far as evaluating all your assets and property etc too.

 

 

So, you've directly contradicted yourself.  Either you want everyone treated the same - as it is now with national super - or you want a socialist utopia of equal outcome which would require massive means testing and asset stripping of those who have done better than the lowest common denominators.  As someone noted above, even Karl Marx, for all his discredited theories, didn't advocate equality of outcome.

 

I'd love to hear more about how you think your proposal above could be achieved, what its benefits would be and whether you have any idea of the unintended consequences.

 

For example "we all have the right to retire equal".  So, if through hard work, good education and prudence, I find myself in a mortgage-free $1M house, does that mean you're going to build similar for everyone?  And the same type of car?  And you're going to replicate my overseas pension (which I earned) for everyone in NZ?

 

I hear Venezuela is nice this time of year if you're looking for somewhere closer to your ideals

 

 

If I had to live my life over again, I'd leave school, go on the dole and cruise for 50 years.  Innovation, enterprise, and effort seem lost to that poster. Or everyone else except him is a baby boomer with 4 flats??

 

Discussion, debate, amongst adult, intelligent people, excludes extremists. Doesn't matter if anyone disagrees as long as its not extremist and stupid. he can maybe seek advice from a fellow extremist, Trump.


 
 
 
 




Glurp
9525 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4523

Subscriber

  Reply # 2173030 4-Feb-2019 19:17
Send private message quote this post

Stick to the topic please. 

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


15358 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2984
Inactive user


  Reply # 2173036 4-Feb-2019 19:20
Send private message quote this post

GV27:

 

The only way it will happen is if National decides they can take enough votes from the Greens to put them under the threshold without losing too many votes themselves. It's more likely if NZ First is marginal, otherwise they'd just be losing bargaining power when it comes to negotiations if they lose too many.

 

Separate to this, of course, is how well you trust National to make a calculated guess on the above. 

 

 

Its a funny situation. National has a low level green or eco policy. Its bordering on zero. Labour has more, possibly or probably due to wanting Green support. So both are poor.

 

Both National and Labour need to take eco seriously. Its not a trendy issue now, its very serious. Whoever takes that on board and enacts serious eco polities that are real and not token, is in. Eco, green, call it what you like, this is the big issue, its not a Left vs Right issue


1631 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 859


  Reply # 2173069 4-Feb-2019 20:21
Send private message quote this post

Rikkitic:

 

Stick to the topic please. 

 

 

 

 

Well, I commented on how I would envisage a blue-green party to look, with the result of deafening silence.  So much for furthering the discussion


3526 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1465

Subscriber

  Reply # 2173106 4-Feb-2019 21:37
Send private message quote this post

tdgeek:

GV27:


The only way it will happen is if National decides they can take enough votes from the Greens to put them under the threshold without losing too many votes themselves. It's more likely if NZ First is marginal, otherwise they'd just be losing bargaining power when it comes to negotiations if they lose too many.


Separate to this, of course, is how well you trust National to make a calculated guess on the above. 



Its a funny situation. National has a low level green or eco policy. Its bordering on zero. Labour has more, possibly or probably due to wanting Green support. So both are poor.


Both National and Labour need to take eco seriously. Its not a trendy issue now, its very serious. Whoever takes that on board and enacts serious eco polities that are real and not token, is in. Eco, green, call it what you like, this is the big issue, its not a Left vs Right issue



National introduced the RUC exemption for EVs.

The Otahuhu B and Southdown gas power stations closed down under the previous National government. 620MW of fossil fuel generation gone. The Te Mihi Geothermal power station was commissioned.

And the UFB network is here due to National. Which indirectly reduces carbon emissions. (and of course fast internet is always good).

Will post some more things later.





3526 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1465

Subscriber

  Reply # 2173145 5-Feb-2019 02:32
Send private message quote this post

The National party are still promoting their policy of the Kermadec ocean Sanctuary.

 

https://www.national.org.nz/supportkermadec

 

My understanding is that the fishing industry made large donations to NZF to get them to block the creation of that Sanctuary. Yet National and the Greens would easily have enough votes in Parliament to pass the necessary laws to create that sanctuary. And to block any attempts by NZF to repeal such laws.

 

Scenario - National table a bill in parliament to create that sanctuary. If the Greens vote against it, National would be able to accuse them of harming the environment. If the Greens vote in favour of it, Then they would risk splitting the coalition government. And they would open the floodgates to National tabling more bills that would pit the environment against coalition government policies.

 

An easy one that comes to mind - Scrapping Labour's free university fees policy, and redirecting that money into purchase subsidies for EVs.

 

Or how about a law that amends the Resource Management Act, removing almost all rights for consents to be declined. If that consent would result in more houses being built, more jobs being created, or more renewable power generation being built.

 

And of course there is Project Aqua. Opposed by the green party, including (then) co leader Jeanette Fitzsimons. Which if it had been built, it would have contributed 520MW of new hydro generation. In perspective, Huntly coal generation is currently rated at 500MW. After project aqua was scrapped - Coal power was lauded as the answer to NZs electricity generation problems.

 

http://tvnz.co.nz/content/419900/2591764/article.html

 

And more recently, Genesis Energy has recertified the Huntly unit 2 generator.

 

https://www.genesisenergy.co.nz/about/media/news/genesis-to-recertify-huntly-unit-2-for-cover-in-20

 

Although Genesis claim that they can't run all 3 coal generators at the same time, they said that the only thing stopping them is the availability of skilled staff. Supposedly the break even electricity price for Huntly coal is around 7c per KW/hr. Yet even right now (2am) there is 200MW of coal generation running right now, and wholesale prices are over 10c per unit. And we are nowhere near winter yet. It will soon get to the point that Genesis will employ / train the necessary staff, so they can run Huntly at 750MW output.

 

National would have a field day. As they would just have to point out to the increase in coal that is being used for electricity generation in NZ. And that when they were previously in power, Genesis were threatening to close down Huntly. As renewable generation was practically putting Huntly coal out of business. Project Aqua would have delivered power for 3.5c to 5c per KW/Hr range. Cheaper than coal and no carbon emissions.

 

So thanks to the Green party - Coal power is here to stay. And of course we all know there is another person who says that coal is the future - Donald Trump.






817 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 369


  Reply # 2173164 5-Feb-2019 07:26
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

Aredwood:

 

An easy one that comes to mind - Scrapping Labour's free university fees policy, and redirecting that money into purchase subsidies for EVs.

 

 

So we're going to replace middle class welfare in terms of subsidising graduates with upper middle class welfare for those who can afford the capital outlay on an EV? Not sure Tesla drivers need subsidies but OK. 


15358 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2984
Inactive user


  Reply # 2173176 5-Feb-2019 08:22
Send private message quote this post

Aredwood:
tdgeek:

 

GV27:

 

 

 

The only way it will happen is if National decides they can take enough votes from the Greens to put them under the threshold without losing too many votes themselves. It's more likely if NZ First is marginal, otherwise they'd just be losing bargaining power when it comes to negotiations if they lose too many.

 

 

 

Separate to this, of course, is how well you trust National to make a calculated guess on the above. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its a funny situation. National has a low level green or eco policy. Its bordering on zero. Labour has more, possibly or probably due to wanting Green support. So both are poor.

 

 

 

Both National and Labour need to take eco seriously. Its not a trendy issue now, its very serious. Whoever takes that on board and enacts serious eco polities that are real and not token, is in. Eco, green, call it what you like, this is the big issue, its not a Left vs Right issue

 



National introduced the RUC exemption for EVs.

The Otahuhu B and Southdown gas power stations closed down under the previous National government. 620MW of fossil fuel generation gone. The Te Mihi Geothermal power station was commissioned.

And the UFB network is here due to National. Which indirectly reduces carbon emissions. (and of course fast internet is always good).

Will post some more things later.

 

 

 

Hmm, seems more a defence on National (and thats fine) than a true green policy?

 

RUC on EV is small, and token, it wont rock the world

 

 

 

If two gas stations shut down, did they shut down as a green policy to reduce emissions or they were not needed?

 

UFB??? Thats a big stretch. Its like saying any road that any Govt built that reduced travel time was built to save emissions.

 

 


15358 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2984
Inactive user


  Reply # 2173181 5-Feb-2019 08:30
Send private message quote this post

Aredwood:

 

 

 

Or how about a law that amends the Resource Management Act, removing almost all rights for consents to be declined. If that consent would result in more houses being built, more jobs being created, or more renewable power generation being built.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And of course there is Project Aqua. Opposed by the green party, including (then) co leader Jeanette Fitzsimons. Which if it had been built, it would have contributed 520MW of new hydro generation. In perspective, Huntly coal generation is currently rated at 500MW. After project aqua was scrapped - Coal power was lauded as the answer to NZs electricity generation problems.

 

http://tvnz.co.nz/content/419900/2591764/article.html

 

And more recently, Genesis Energy has recertified the Huntly unit 2 generator.

 

https://www.genesisenergy.co.nz/about/media/news/genesis-to-recertify-huntly-unit-2-for-cover-in-20

 

Although Genesis claim that they can't run all 3 coal generators at the same time, they said that the only thing stopping them is the availability of skilled staff. Supposedly the break even electricity price for Huntly coal is around 7c per KW/hr. Yet even right now (2am) there is 200MW of coal generation running right now, and wholesale prices are over 10c per unit. And we are nowhere near winter yet. It will soon get to the point that Genesis will employ / train the necessary staff, so they can run Huntly at 750MW output.

 

National would have a field day. As they would just have to point out to the increase in coal that is being used for electricity generation in NZ. And that when they were previously in power, Genesis were threatening to close down Huntly. As renewable generation was practically putting Huntly coal out of business. Project Aqua would have delivered power for 3.5c to 5c per KW/Hr range. Cheaper than coal and no carbon emissions.

 

So thanks to the Green party - Coal power is here to stay. And of course we all know there is another person who says that coal is the future - Donald Trump.

 

 

RMA. National have been working on the RMA for years, and still are, in Opposition. Nothing has happened so far, and its not a green based issue

 

Coal. I agree that the Greens suck with coal. They want their cake (say, more Hydro) and eat it too (More Hydro but don't break any native plants, so no hydro).

 

We are not 100% renewable, so we use coal. Until we are 100% renewable coal is fine, as it has to be. While I blame Greens for no hydro, I also blame National, they havent acted on more hydro, less coal, when they could have done this without any support needed from the Greens

 

IMO National has a green policy as a token gesture. This includes a clean river policy, which only got as far as "some readings are being taken from the rivers" as quoted on a leaders debate last election. Greens, despite being a green, eco party aren't a lot of help as they want Utopia to magically happen


7998 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4338


  Reply # 2173189 5-Feb-2019 08:46
Send private message quote this post

tdgeek:

 

We are not 100% renewable, so we use coal. Until we are 100% renewable coal is fine, as it has to be.

 

 

No it's not.  Coal produces almost double the CO2 per unit of electricity generated as natural gas.


15358 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2984
Inactive user


  Reply # 2173190 5-Feb-2019 08:49
Send private message quote this post

Fred99:

 

tdgeek:

 

We are not 100% renewable, so we use coal. Until we are 100% renewable coal is fine, as it has to be.

 

 

No it's not.  Coal produces almost double the CO2 per unit of electricity generated as natural gas.

 

 

Do we have enough gas to remove all coal generation?


7998 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4338


  Reply # 2173191 5-Feb-2019 08:56
Send private message quote this post

tdgeek:

 

This includes a clean river policy, which only got as far as "some readings are being taken from the rivers" as quoted on a leaders debate last election. Greens, despite being a green, eco party aren't a lot of help as they want Utopia to magically happen

 

 

So while river water quality was apparently a major issue to many NZers (the majority of whom would be urban), lobbyists create the counter-argument that rural/agricultural water use is a minor issue, as "the worst polluted waterways" are in urban areas / cities.  Is this classic "fake news"? IMO it is, only 1% of NZ waterways are in urban areas (where ~85% of the population  live), it's a form of whataboutism - an irrelevant deflection from the real issue.  Yet many of the public bought it.


52 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 7
Inactive user


  Reply # 2173195 5-Feb-2019 09:07
Send private message quote this post

tdgeek:

 

Fred99:

 

tdgeek:

 

We are not 100% renewable, so we use coal. Until we are 100% renewable coal is fine, as it has to be.

 

 

No it's not.  Coal produces almost double the CO2 per unit of electricity generated as natural gas.

 

 

Do we have enough gas to remove all coal generation?

 

 

Maybe not gas, but more than enough could still be created using wind and hydro. Coal needs to be banned immediately. Huntly must be switched off.


52 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 7
Inactive user


  Reply # 2173197 5-Feb-2019 09:09
Send private message quote this post

Fred99:

 

tdgeek:

 

We are not 100% renewable, so we use coal. Until we are 100% renewable coal is fine, as it has to be.

 

 

No it's not.  Coal produces almost double the CO2 per unit of electricity generated as natural gas.

 

 

Agreed, and why we even still need to debate this in 2019 is unbelievable. Government must shut it down.


1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic


Donate via Givealittle


Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Amazon introduces new Kindle with adjustable front light
Posted 21-Mar-2019 20:14


A call from the companies providing internet access for the great majority of New Zealanders, to the companies with the greatest influence over social media content
Posted 19-Mar-2019 15:21


Two e-scooter companies selected for Wellington trial
Posted 15-Mar-2019 17:33


GeForce GTX 1660 available now
Posted 15-Mar-2019 08:47


Artificial Intelligence to double the rate of innovation in New Zealand by 2021
Posted 13-Mar-2019 14:47


LG demonstrates smart home concepts at LG InnoFest
Posted 13-Mar-2019 14:45


New Zealanders buying more expensive smartphones
Posted 11-Mar-2019 09:52


2degrees Offers Amazon Prime Video to Broadband Customers
Posted 8-Mar-2019 14:10


D-Link ANZ launches D-Fend AC2600 Wi-Fi Router Protected by McAfee
Posted 7-Mar-2019 11:09


Slingshot commissions celebrities to design new modems
Posted 5-Mar-2019 08:58


Symantec Annual Threat Report reveals more ambitious, destructive and stealthy attacks
Posted 28-Feb-2019 10:14


FUJIFILM launches high performing X-T30
Posted 28-Feb-2019 09:40


Netflix is killing content piracy says research
Posted 28-Feb-2019 09:33


Trend Micro finds shifting threats require kiwis to rethink security priorities
Posted 28-Feb-2019 09:27


Mainfreight uses Spark IoT Asset Tracking service
Posted 28-Feb-2019 09:25



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.