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1375 posts

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# 245351 30-Jan-2019 18:47
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/110263289/kiwibuild-to-be-recalibrated-as-interim-targets-are-scrapped

 

KiwiBuild's "interim" targets for this electoral term have been scrapped as the Government recalibrates the programme.

 

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Housing Minister Phil Twyford told media from their caucus retreat on Wednesday that their commitment to building 100,000 affordable homes over the next decade remains intact, but the interim targets for this term did not.

 

The Government has been dealing with the fallout from an admission by Twyford that the Government would not be able build 1000 of the homes by July 1, its first interim target. Instead it expects to build just 300.

 

KiwiBuild was a flagship policy. It was a platform for three electoral cycles and it was used as a constant crow call when accusing National of "doing nothing" about housing. Now there is deafening silence as the Government effectively abdicates its biggest campaign pledge: the delivery of affordable housing. 

 

There may be a silver lining: If Twyford steps down, he might be able to focus on transport. There are apparently issues with the Light Rail business case which is now months overdue. I'd rather have one or the other than neither. 

 

 

 

 


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  # 2170336 30-Jan-2019 18:50
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The promises were made hundreds of times. They were told hundreds of times it wouldnt be possible, yet they kept on promising. Surely someone must be sacked?


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  # 2170524 31-Jan-2019 07:16
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It was a silly target, probably falls under a political election tactic. If it was brought into play say 3-4 years ago, to combat the housing boom, it would have been better, but the 100,000 would still have been too high. The issue is that housing boom has already got prices too high, those that could scrape in, have already bought, so houses built or not, there are no buyers. If they had managed to build 100,000 by tomorrow, there are no buyers at 2018/19 prices. There are at 2014 prices


 
 
 
 


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  # 2170526 31-Jan-2019 07:22
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Bluntj:

 

The promises were made hundreds of times. They were told hundreds of times it wouldnt be possible, yet they kept on promising. Surely someone must be sacked?

 

 

Have you been counting??  You are just trying to make up numbers, best keep to the facts. Better to try and fail, than never to try at all

 

Labour needs to do that them and National have failed to do, fix the RMA. get the artificial costs that are added to new builds down, the there will be buyers available. Kiwibuild also needs to look at reno's, they are stick that many buyers cannot afford to buy if the mortgage payments eat up too much salary. Talk lately of building rentals, at affordable rental prices, perhaps with rent to buy. Need to be a bit creative as the last years of housing price increases have taken away many buyers




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  # 2170527 31-Jan-2019 07:56
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tdgeek:

 

Bluntj:

 

The promises were made hundreds of times. They were told hundreds of times it wouldnt be possible, yet they kept on promising. Surely someone must be sacked?

 

 

Have you been counting??  You are just trying to make up numbers, best keep to the facts. Better to try and fail, than never to try at all

 

Labour needs to do that them and National have failed to do, fix the RMA. get the artificial costs that are added to new builds down, the there will be buyers available. Kiwibuild also needs to look at reno's, they are stick that many buyers cannot afford to buy if the mortgage payments eat up too much salary. Talk lately of building rentals, at affordable rental prices, perhaps with rent to buy. Need to be a bit creative as the last years of housing price increases have taken away many buyers

 

 

Sorry TD but Labour were repeatedly challenged on this and insisted it could be done, neigh, it would be done. Fifty electorates, up and down the country, each candidate asked once about Kiwibuild? The fact it was repeated hundreds of times isn't so far fetched. 

 

As soon as they were elected, they climbed down on the price, the type of builds and now the only meaningful targets. If anything the market has walked backwards from where we were during the 2017 Election, so it can't be price rises since then. They campaigned on this for years. Given the media repeatedly ran stories about the Nats saying "there is no housing crisis" (idiots), you would think they'd be in uproar about Labour basically walking back on every key housing election promise.

 

Apparently not. Can't imagine why.


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  # 2170530 31-Jan-2019 08:04
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GV27:

 

tdgeek:

 

Bluntj:

 

The promises were made hundreds of times. They were told hundreds of times it wouldnt be possible, yet they kept on promising. Surely someone must be sacked?

 

 

Have you been counting??  You are just trying to make up numbers, best keep to the facts. Better to try and fail, than never to try at all

 

Labour needs to do that them and National have failed to do, fix the RMA. get the artificial costs that are added to new builds down, the there will be buyers available. Kiwibuild also needs to look at reno's, they are stick that many buyers cannot afford to buy if the mortgage payments eat up too much salary. Talk lately of building rentals, at affordable rental prices, perhaps with rent to buy. Need to be a bit creative as the last years of housing price increases have taken away many buyers

 

 

Sorry TD but Labour were repeatedly challenged on this and insisted it could be done, neigh, it would be done. Fifty electorates, up and down the country, each candidate asked once about Kiwibuild? The fact it was repeated hundreds of times isn't so far fetched. 

 

As soon as they were elected, they climbed down on the price, the type of builds and now the only meaningful targets. If anything the market has walked backwards from where we were during the 2017 Election, so it can't be price rises since then. They campaigned on this for years. Given the media repeatedly ran stories about the Nats saying "there is no housing crisis" (idiots), you would think they'd be in uproar about Labour basically walking back on every key housing election promise.

 

Apparently not. Can't imagine why. At least Stuff did an article and photoshoot about Jacinda's pregnancy yesterday. Might as well hold her accountable for something! 

 

 

True, the market hasn't moved, I didn't say it kept rising to put buyers out of touch. Its already out of touch and will remain so for a few years. I dont disagree that the target was lofty and I feel as I said that it was probably more election winning based. So, it was too high, they climb back, Im ok with that. Its a technical fail but it still has value, once buyers are created by time. better to try and fail rather than not try at all, which was the case with National. but what we will see, is that this news item will be main news every day, that actually says something. I also think that many if not all that supported this coalition didnt see this target as realistic. That has turned out to be the case as we all expected. So its done. But its not done as it will remain the big news item of the day, every day, and as I said, that means something 




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  # 2170558 31-Jan-2019 09:09
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tdgeek:

 

better to try and fail rather than not try at all, which was the case with National. 

 

 

This is not the case. The Axis Housing ballots run through HNZ and HLC (who are now a Kiwibuild partner) delivered more houses than Kiwibuild has. To give you some idea how disorganised Kiwibuild are; the Axis ballots are still happening. 

 

I would have thought rebranding these to Kiwibuild would have been the easiest win you could imagine to get Kiwibuild numbers up.

 

The narrative "National has done nothing" is not only factually wrong, it's been repeated ad infinium. It doesn't make it true. Even more incredible is that Labour made a big song and dance about what they were going to do and achieved even less. 


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  # 2170570 31-Jan-2019 09:31
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GV27:

 

tdgeek:

 

better to try and fail rather than not try at all, which was the case with National. 

 

 

This is not the case. The Axis Housing ballots run through HNZ and HLC (who are now a Kiwibuild partner) delivered more houses than Kiwibuild has. To give you some idea how disorganised Kiwibuild are; the Axis ballots are still happening. 

 

I would have thought rebranding these to Kiwibuild would have been the easiest win you could imagine to get Kiwibuild numbers up.

 

The narrative "National has done nothing" is not only factually wrong, it's been repeated ad infinium. It doesn't make it true. Even more incredible is that Labour made a big song and dance about what they were going to do and achieved even less. 

 

 

Tell me what National proactively did to support home buyers at the affordable level?

 

Whats wrong with Axis ballots still happening? One thing I noticed with pasts posts about Kiwibuild is that users said they rebrand a partially completed home and call ti Kiwibuild, so its fake. That is 100% incorrect. Kiwibuild is not about Govt singularly building Kiwibuild homes. There are 4 or 5 categories, including taking over a developers build and flicking it to a Kiwibuild buyer, taking over a developers whole development, and even when a house is finished by a developer, getting a Kiwibuild buyer in, so that the Kiwibuild buyer can squeeze in with Kiwibuild terms and not general terms . The focus was always on getting first home buyers into affordable homes, not home "Built by NZ Govt"

 

National let the building industry build, it let the house sales industry sell, and we had a housing boom fueled by rich foreignors who dd not care about prices and low interest rates. Im not in favour of 100% regulation bit I'm also not in favour of Nationals only policy of let the market decide, when there are artificial factors involved. Thats wrong. If NZ had a 50 million population you can let the market sort it out, not when the population is so puny, that makes it super vulnerable.

 

We all agree Kiwibuild will fail to reach all of its targets. Despite the fact the first home buyers are pretty much screwed, it still has value. "and achieved even less." As per my first sentence.

 

My point still stands, Kiwibuild will be used ad inifinitum every day to bag the Govt, so its not actually the topic, its a topic to keep bagging current, IMHO. And as I said twice earlier, that means something....


 
 
 
 




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  # 2170613 31-Jan-2019 09:56
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tdgeek:

 

Tell me what National proactively did to support home buyers at the affordable level?

 

 

The SHAs spring to mind; rendered ineffective by local Govt - wouldn't want to speculate on the affiliation of certain local Govts but that's just me. Doubled the Home Start grant? Took over the ballot process from HNZ? The TRC? All of these had specific provisions for FHBs. It depends, of course, whether you want to cut National the same slack you're bending over backwards to give Labour for Kiwibuild failing at literally every step. 


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  # 2170617 31-Jan-2019 10:17
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GV27:

 

tdgeek:

 

Tell me what National proactively did to support home buyers at the affordable level?

 

 

The SHAs spring to mind; rendered ineffective by local Govt - wouldn't want to speculate on the affiliation of certain local Govts but that's just me. Doubled the Home Start grant? Took over the ballot process from HNZ? The TRC? All of these had specific provisions for FHBs. It depends, of course, whether you want to cut National the same slack you're bending over backwards to give Labour for Kiwibuild failing at literally every step. 

 

 

Lol ok! I wouldn't say I'm bending over backwards. I'll leave that to Ferguson if he plays today. I have always criticised Kiwibuilds targets. As a policy I think its a good policy, we cant rely on the market to build quality affordable homes in numbers. And to criticise Labour, while its a good policy to handhold the building indusrty, the horse has already bolted, thats why it has failed, not because of the reasons for its existence. It should have been in years ago, when first home buyers were vulnerable to the artificial boom.

 

Yes, National improved some things, but Kiwibuild was at least proactive, rather than token. National has a general policy of let the market decide, on many many issues, and while that is one way to manage the economy, IMO its been a fail to let housing run away, but hey, that's the conservative way. In other times or issues, conservatism is the best and safest way to move forward, but not always. Housing needs to be fixed by someone, Kiwibuild was a good option, but too late as prices are now too high and no inflation and a low wage economy wont being the buyers back in a hurry. A drop in housing prices due to demand of say 10% would help, but that causes other issues, so we are generally pretty stuck right now




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  # 2170628 31-Jan-2019 10:34
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tdgeek:

 

Kiwibuild was at least proactive, rather than token.

 

What about it was proactive? The only thing they've proactively done is climb down from what they campaigned on. At least Aunty Helz followed through with making student loans interest-free. That's what being proactive looks like. 

 

What I'm seeing is people are happy to be promised something, at which point they cease to be critical even if it totally fails to be delivered. Unless it was National, at which point, it must be constantly brought up as a means to distract why the thing you promised everyone is a total balls-up.


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  # 2170634 31-Jan-2019 10:44
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GV27:

 

tdgeek:

 

Kiwibuild was at least proactive, rather than token.

 

What about it was proactive? The only thing they've proactively done is climb down from what they campaigned on. At least Aunty Helz followed through with making student loans interest-free. That's what being proactive looks like. 

 

What I'm seeing is people are happy to be promised something, at which point they cease to be critical even if it totally fails to be delivered. Unless it was National, at which point, it must be constantly brought up as a means to distract why the thing you promised everyone is a total balls-up.

 

 

Proactive as in the Kiwibuild project itself.

 

Re the second point, yes I can see you think that I think that also in reverse. The political threads here are solely Labour bashing, nothing else. There have been so many posts that are inaccurate, so its not about THE topic its about bashing. One example is the many times Ive read that Kiwibuild is just rebranding other houses.

 

Ive always seen here that the manner that anti Labour people bash is far and away more aggressive than the opposite, thats my personal observation. There is not a great deal here about the issue, its about the bashing, both ways. This short debate today has at least put forward points of fact, and specific points, in my opinion, and both ways, rather than the usual commentary.


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  # 2170756 31-Jan-2019 14:12
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This was yet just another lie during the election campaign that even Labour knew could never live up to the hype. Labour then continued the hype (or rather Twyford) for the first year of Government during countless parliament questions. More lies. Twyford should be removed from this portfolio.


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  # 2170934 31-Jan-2019 17:10
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Now that Labour has officially abandoned their Kiwibuild housing targets, honesty compels me to acknowledge that @Networkn was 101% spot-on with his observations of a year ago when the government took office, and they should have listened to him. As I recall it, everything he said and predicted on this subject is pretty much exactly what Labour has now conceded. Maybe they should hire him as a consultant.

 

So @Networkn, feel free to take a victory lap at my expense if you wish. I wanted to give the government the benefit of the doubt, and I had hopes that they might at least make a decent dent in the problem, but it does seem to have been pretty much all hot air and spin. What a pity for those hoping to buy their first homes.

 

I am disappointed, but I’m afraid this does not mean I am about to become a National supporter. Every time I see the face of Simon Bridges or Paula Bennet or any of the other turkeys on that roost, I feel my fists clench. I can only hope something better will come along, or the government will learn from experience and actually do a good job of governing, or people of good will make a decision to work together for the benefit of us all. And until then, I will probably just hold my nose and vote Greens as a fall-back.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 




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  # 2170980 31-Jan-2019 18:36
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Rikkitic:

 

I wanted to give the government the benefit of the doubt, and I had hopes that they might at least make a decent dent in the problem, but it does seem to have been pretty much all hot air and spin. What a pity for those hoping to buy their first homes.

 

 

As a FHB, I wanted them to succeed. Yet unfortunately it looks like the actual issues and impacts this is happening on our generation is nothing than a headline grabber that's been used to turn an election. 

 

It's your classic "we totally care about young people" <continues to screw over young people> politician move; so much for generational change, eh.


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  # 2171018 31-Jan-2019 20:52
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Rikkitic:

 

Now that Labour has officially abandoned their Kiwibuild housing targets, honesty compels me to acknowledge that @Networkn was 101% spot-on with his observations of a year ago when the government took office, and they should have listened to him. As I recall it, everything he said and predicted on this subject is pretty much exactly what Labour has now conceded. Maybe they should hire him as a consultant.

 

So @Networkn, feel free to take a victory lap at my expense if you wish. I wanted to give the government the benefit of the doubt, and I had hopes that they might at least make a decent dent in the problem, but it does seem to have been pretty much all hot air and spin. What a pity for those hoping to buy their first homes.

 

I am disappointed, but I’m afraid this does not mean I am about to become a National supporter. Every time I see the face of Simon Bridges or Paula Bennet or any of the other turkeys on that roost, I feel my fists clench. I can only hope something better will come along, or the government will learn from experience and actually do a good job of governing, or people of good will make a decision to work together for the benefit of us all. And until then, I will probably just hold my nose and vote Greens as a fall-back.

 

 

 

 

Well, I think most people did not agree with 100,000 homes in 10 years. He was right as were all of us. 

 

It was a fail. But as is patently obvious, where are the buyers, demand is down as prices are too high. Horse has bolted. Its a fail and they won't reach 100,000 or 40,000 as there are not enough buyers for affordable homes. Its simple match. 5 years ago, it was a real option during the boom.


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